@Shinmaru:

I guess you're just driven to point out the handful of times you think I'm wrong. :p

And yeah, all valid points there. I think the best way to fix the OMG IMPENDING DOOM of the anime industry is for all parties to meet in the middle. Licensors and distributors need to do a little direct market research to find out exactly what the fans want, and if that happens the fans will inevitably buy it. If we want special editions, bring on the special editions, and if we just want a marathon mode and some director commentary, we'll pay what you ask for that.

I'm sure it's not quite that simple, but being more lenient with how your distributor is allowed to sell your product will probably help it move a lot better in the long run.

@Ace:

One of the best ways for a company to find out what to license is to take a look at what's being downloaded. Whatever's getting more hits is obviously more popular.

While I believe there is some merit to this, as you hint at, the business reality is a bit more complicated than that. For example, we all remember how popular Haruhi Suzumiya was upon initial release. But, if I remember correctly, the DVDs sold decently here but not anywhere near expectations. Lucky Star was pretty damn popular, too, but I've heard everything from they sold decently at best to the DVDs straight-up bombing. K-On! is fairly popular, but I'd wager companies would be pretty damn cautious about licensing it since the whole moe/slice-of-life thing is pretty niche, even in anime fandom.

But of course, I don't think fans sticking to fansubs was the whole reason those series didn't perform as well as hoped (though that obviously did not help at all); sticking to an antiquated means of production (singles + SPECIAL EDITION singles with sparkles!!!!!) didn't do Bandai any favors. Fanboy me spent more than $100 on 14-episode Haruhi Suzumiya -- I have more money now than I did then, and I wouldn't touch that kind of deal.

And even that has more complications than people may realize: Pretty sure I recall someone from Funi talking about how the licensors have a pretty strong say in the method of release -- if they want singles, then there are damn well going to be singles (even though it has been proven time and again that fans want nothing to do with singles). (They've also got to bow to their quirks, translation-wise, which is why you get silly stuff like the bizarre pronunciation of Eureka's name in Eureka Seven.)

Buuuut, I should say to take my comment with a grain of salt (not that I'm usually the Ultimate Authority on this sort of thing by any means) since I might be remembering a few things incorrectly/incompletely and don't have all the info in front of me (or in my ear :p) at the moment.

Speaking of, if anyone wants more information on the subject, I recommend the ANNcasts Justin Sevakis and Zac Bertschy run on ANN. They've helped me become more familiar with and sympathetic to the economics of the anime industry (although, like 'Gome, I'm don't really take kindly to scaremongering tactics). There are probably more podcasts and bloggers and whatnot who go in-depth with this stuff, too. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if our own Anime Pulse podcasters talked about this topic every so often -- maybe I should be directing people to them first! :p

Also, LOL, I always seem to direct my replies to you, Ace, even though we only rarely disagree. I guess your comments are good springboards!

@twilight luna:

If that strategy had worked, they wouldn't already be in this jam.

That being said, I don't think fansubbing is completely to blame. One of the best ways for a company to find out what to license is to take a look at what's being downloaded. Whatever's getting more hits is obviously more popular. The problem comes from when they license the stuff and the fans keep downloading rather than buying the product that's now readily available (or at least watching it on Hulu or something so they get ad revenue). Supporting the official release only becomes important once there is an official release, after all.

Also, dubs are expensive, yo. If nobody buys into them, they stop making them. It's not worth the trouble anymore.

Hmm... I don't want to sound wrong here but if they just dubbed all this good anime already, people wouldn't need to fansub it. It might take a while, but still... Anyone agree or disaggree?

@:

Hey, no need to be hesitant in pointing that out. It's definitely an issue -- for example, I love movies but am not a huge movie collector. (I own maybe 10 movies that I have bought myself.) The investment is too much (unless you wait forever), and movies too easy to watch by other means (TV, library, Netflix, etc.), for me to want to buy a ton of them. The fansub thing is the same thing, except obviously, uh, illegal lol. As long as they exist (and they'll never entirely disappear -- that I'm sure of), there will be people who just won't pay for shows.

All the industry can do, really, is come up with a model enticing enough to lure a decent number of people who are willing to pay for anime. We know they exist, obviously -- there just needs to be a way to grab their attention (which is difficult, since there exist so many things competing for limited attention spans).

And, yeah, LOL the Japanese side of things also has issues with VA overuse. For instance, in the circles I roll in, there is a backlash against Hiroshi Kamiya going on since he plays the lead in so many series these days. I still like the guy, and I'll never fault anyone for making a buck, but I can see why people would be annoyed.

@:

you have to admit though, having the same actors for almost every single anime out there gets pretty tiresome, you know? You think you hear Ed but it turns out to be Tamaki, or wait no it's this other character....what IS that?!
For the whole they have it in japanese too issue, until recently (not including Naruto) I have not seen more than one or 2 dvds with that option. You had a subbed dvd, or an english only dvd...

@stararnold:

Mmm, while it's undeniable that fansubs are an issue, let's not pretend that is the only issue here. There are so many factors that have led to the decline of the anime industry -- fansubs being one, overexpansion and ridiculous bidding wars being another (remember all the garbage that was licensed along with the gold?), the poor economy being another (which leads to less ad revenue in general on TV, which means fewer stations will be willing to take a chance on a niche product like anime), and so on. Frankly, it's counterproductive and insulting to place all the blame on the fans. Nobody is a saint, and nobody is a devil here.

The way Western anime companies do business is rapidly changing; the shift to streaming hasn't been blazing fast, nor has it apparently been very profitable so far, but ultimately I think it would be in everyone's -- the fans and companies alike -- best interests to somehow work out the kinks with streaming and online distribution. (Unfortunately, I'm not at all qualified for that.)

Maybe I'm giving fans too much credit here, but I think a good number (not all, and maybe not even most, but a good portion) want to sample a series, gauge its quality and then buy the DVDs (although DVDs are going to be phased out as Blu-Ray gets an ever-stronger hold of the market) -- you know, the process they went through during the anime boom when a bajillion series were available on TV. If the companies can figure out a viable business model for online streaming, then hell, I'm more than willing to roll with that -- I'm watching the noitaminA series on Funi's site, I watch a couple of series on Crunchyroll (notably Gintama, which is a pretty damn funny series) and I'd like to watch much more.

I really hope the industry is able to figure things out, because I want to support my favorite series. I bought the Eureka Seven boxsets, my Giant Robo boxset arrived yesterday, I pre-ordered Toradora! (and hope it exceeds expectations, sales-wise, because it would be fantastic to have another company doing healthy business), etc. But I and many others are going to drop money on shows we deem truly worth it -- anime is nobody's sole hobby, and like all hobbies, it's a luxury.

I'm not going to pretend I'm choosing between food and anime, because that would be a lie (not to mention absurd -- what kind of messed up priorities would those be??); I have a steady job and the means to pay for the occasional series, which I'm doing. And I sympathize with those struggling in the anime business; my industry of choice -- newspapers -- is in the toilet as much as anime. But laying a guilt trip on fans just isn't going to cut it, just as fans acting entitled and holier-than-thou when bitching about anime companies isn't going to cut it either.

get some decent voice actors, and don't change things around and cut things out of the original japanese versions, and maybe the industry won't die.
seriously, thats the only reason people watch fansubs.
because they feel that by watching some crap edited version of the original, they get the shaft. which we do =]
also, lack of good series and accessible channels paired with high prices, are you really SURPRISED that people turn to the internet? yeesh...

Don't know about you, but it's hard to find anime and manga l'm looking for in stores. l have to wait till the con near me starts.

l don't think some people understand or care about what they're doing just as long as they can watch it for free now.

It's unfortunate that those in North America who rather watch illegal fansubs than buy the official DVD copies of the Anime titles they love have no clue that they're responsible for this crisis. If you ask me, I think the real root of the problem was that those fans had no intention to count on any U.S. companies that sub and dub Anime in English at all, not realizing that most English dubs for Anime nowadays don't modify character names, cultural refrences, or non-kid-friendly elements.

:( Hmmmm...Well if they were a little faster at releasing it here and actually put it on TV station where people could watch it then maybe it wouldn't be like this. Seriously the only TV station I have that shows anime is cartoon network on adult swim...which their selection is very limited.
I usually use ligit websites like the Naruto website or the funimation web site first. If I cannot find what I want...Then I might go to some other sites...But I prefer to watch from legit sites since the quality is better.
*sigh* I hope they don't do that.

I'm not surprised really. Most places that sell this kind of stuff have vanished where I live. I've had to use online sources like Amazon to get any new anime for the past couple of years, if not longer. =/