Oh jeez!!! I keep coming across such amazing views and outlooks and what-not on this challenge, and I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!!!! People should be able to love who they want and just because someone is homosexual or any of the sort does not make them Evil. Just because you don't believe in a god (Me either) does NOT make you/us evil! Evil is something greater than just that. Evil is chaos, hate, genocide, destruction, and pain. People who go and say "Homosexuals are going to hell" or "Homosexuals won't be saved" is such an awful thing to say. It's HATEFUL! It's evil. Why would someone go around and tell you or anyone else that they are going to hell for going against the bible or their teachings when that's just horrible and awful to do to begin with! I have nothing wrong with Christians or any other religion follower, BUT it's not okay to be hurtful like that. I know christians who will keep their mouth shut rather than saying "BURN IN HELL YOU HOMO" or some radical comment like that. So kudos to the people who are kind and actually christian-like like they are supposed to be. You're not following a religion if you are just going to be a hypocrite.
Bravo! You are a critical thinker! I like your point of view.
Mine are slightly diffrent, but that is what makes people awesome! If we were all the same, it'd be boring. I may forward this to one of my like minded friends.
Wow, this really is a touchy subject. haha. But, I do want to say that it isn't God who thinks gay people are wrong or that interracial relations are sinful. It's the people. There is no where in the bible that says this. And, the people that are using bible verses to justify what they feel aren't actually reading the whole bible. They are taking what they want out of it. I bet the same people that told you that the bible says gays are sinful have trimmed beards (or none at all), right? Well, Leviticus says that people shouldn't trim their beards or throw around a pigskin, so no football, or eat pork. I believe these verses and chapters are for that time period, and since we have evolved as people and the times having changed, people don't need to follow Leviticus as strictly. But, I got off topic.... What I wanted to point out is that God loves everyone no matter what. He wouldn't have created them if he hated them. People are afraid of what is different and then twist things to their perspective. Also, on the why children suffer and whatnot, it's because God gave us free will. It's people's fault, not His. He can only do so much.
I'm not trying to change your point of view. If you don't believe in God, that is perfectly fine, I am not going to judge you, but please take into consideration that it is the people that think this way, not God. God loves everything and everyone.
I don't get why there's always stuff in the news where people complain about gay marriage. Like you said, love is love, and I don't understand why people have to make such a big fuss over gay marriage. I don't know why being gay is a 'sin' either. Same thing with interracial couples. Why? I mean, weren't people supposed to get over racism back in the sixties or whatever? I never heard about interracial couples being a sin until you brought it up (I saw a white man and a black woman get married in my church last year). Does that mean I'd be a 'sinner' if I dated a boy who was a different race than me? People need to quit putting all this bs about gay and interracial couples on national news because it's really getting annoying.. )<
ANYWAYS, I'll stop ranting about that.
Personally I think you went about talking about the subject and your beliefs maturely. It seems like a lot of people nowadays blow up and breathe fire when other people have different beliefs than theirs. You're like the only atheist I know that can ask these kind of questions without offending me because you say things that are completely understandable instead of saying 'I hate Christianity and God is stupid and blah blah' like all my atheist friends must say (or at least one person that always makes it a point to say when I'm around that's friends with my best friend).
Also I saw one of your comments where you said something about everyone thinking religious people are the nicest people in the world and you don't agree. I agree with you. There was this lady at my old church that always roared at at least three kids every Sunday for something dumb like running in the halls or going into the office. She was so mean she even yelled at parents when they yelled at her for yelling at their kids. People sometimes...
Anyways I really like the text you used, and good luck in the challenge!
First of all, this card is amazing!! the colors, effects, typography, well everything looks gorgeous! you did an amazing work *bows*
And about your description I read it all and I totally agreed with you, even thou I do believe in God I do not believe in the concept of the bible, church, etc.
Wow. To both sides of this argument --- Enough of the broad sweeping generalisations here!
Miku, your Dad thinks some strange things. I'm sorry he hurt you, he is wrong. Of course you aren't evil! And his other points are wrong in my opinion too.
I do think that people shouldn't label each other based on limited experiences. Saying things such as 'religious people are closed minded' just sounds insulting. Even if most of the ones you have met ARE closed minded, that by no means implies that EVERYONE is.
Religion is personal. My belief is personal. I still have a lot to think over...
ANYWAY! I really like the card. I hadn't seen this challenge before... Your Typography is lovely <3
I understand what you mean, I just don't agree with it.
Crops are alright, but I was only talking about the human sacrifice part, I'm glad we agree that the Bible has gruesome stuff in it.
Not all sacrifices were living things. If you've read the old testament people gave some of their harvest of crops to God. The point of a sacrifice is to give up something you worked hard with. Most of the people talked about in the bible raised animals...so they gave up their largest calf or lamb. Cain was a farmer, so he gave a portion of his crops.
Besides. Sacrifices of animals ect...have no meaning to Christians now since Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. Jews still practice it, but in their life style instead. They do not eat pork or mix dairy and meat.
Yes...the Old testament was gruesome in some spots, but that is not what Christianity is all about. Three religions use the Old Testament. Jews, Muslims and Christians. Both Muslims and Christians add onto it and it's no longer the focus.
And because we sin we put a dent in our relationship with God...think of in the old testament...a sacrifice being an apology...Now we have Jesus to apologize for us. I am putting this in a simplest terms as I can. I'm sorry if you cannot comprehend.
Last edited by MewChero at 4:56:50 PM CST on December 17, 2011.
And why should I know how painful it was for a divinity that might or might not exist to lose its son, that again, has a questionable existence? The Bible doesn't make any sense, if God's as awesome as that book makes it sound he shouldn't force a human that He loves so much to suffer or commit a horrid sin such as sacrifice. It's not the sin itself that bugs me, sin is natural for humans, but the fact that it's regarded as a good, encouraged thing to kill in the name of God. That's wrong and contradicting to so many teachings of the Bible.
That was a way for us to see how painful it was for God to lose his own Son for us. *shrugs* I guess it's something to be looked at from a distance and see the whole picture.
And God stopped Abraham.
Killing is Sin, so killing loved ones does NOT cleanse anyone. To me, it's still bull. Believe it if you want, I don't mind. Just please quit trying to answer this. I already stated it in the description I didn't want any of that. I don't mind discussing opinions, but trying to explain why it's sin is upsetting me.
Last edited by MikuBerry at 3:33:55 PM CST on December 17, 2011.
The animal cruelty thing? and the sacrifices? Old news. Jesus died so we would not have to do that anymore. :) The sacrifices were needed to cleanse us of sin.
Neko Girl (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/17/11 | Reply
This contest had brought up some fun discussion. I will answer some of your questions as a Christian who is attending a Christian University (I through that out there, because I will mention some professors with PHD.'s) I also LOVE science...and though I do not like all of what Darwin teaches I know there is some evolution.
Why is gay marriage Sin? The gay marriage is not a sin, nor is being gay a sin. It's the acting upon lustful homosexual desires that is the sin. And God loves sinners. It's people who hate sinners. You have to remember that not all people follow God's will to a T...Like your dad was not being very Christian like...Jesus loved all those that the Pharisees hated because of their sins. Plus, Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself. Love is not the sin...It's the way people show their love that can be a sin.
Now...I will switch to science. Think of it this way...What could homosexual love be if not relating to sin (as in wanting to act upon those desires)? There is not evolutionary reason to be homosexual. You cannot reproduce that way...so why would people fall in love with the same sex? there has to be something bigger out there. Whether it was caused by the devil, Allah, Buddha, Zeus or God. You have to consider there is more than just science. How can anyone deny the possible of their being SOMETHING more when scientifically being homosexual does not make sense. Even animals who sometimes have homosexual tendencies male horses often practice on each other take a heterosexual mate.
I could go on...but I have to go eat lunch. lol Please do not group all Christians into one group. Many of us are very nice and actually follow the teachings of our Lord Jesus....But others do not...and they give us a bad name. Just like not all Muslims are Terrorist...Not all of us Christians are messed up.
Thanks to this card, I'm now having doubts on how society really thinks of same sex marriage, straight people, the Divinity of Marriage and the never ending issue of Morality.
I do believe in God. But for those aspects, I can't help but contradict what the Bible says. There are lots of LGBT's here in the Philippines and they've been a large part of society but then they're being criticized and humiliated for having same sex marriage.
Religion did taught me on doing what makes me happy, but then when you put this issue, Religion is the first one to go against you. I'm thinking "does happiness has it's own boundaries as well?".
I feel I'm being faithful to my heart rather than my own Religion. I'm not an Atheist nor an LGBT but this issue made me pissed off at society so much. I understand what you wanted to say and you did a great job! :)
Although I believe in God, I really respect you for thinking everything through. I can appreciate people who really ponder over the subject, rather than just saying "I believe because I was told to" or "this sounds stupid" or something. I don't agree with you on every point you made, but I agree with some of your ideas and think it's wonderful that you think about things deeply. ^_^
Your card is beautiful.
And I agree very much with you. I am an interacial child and I don't think it's wrong to be one. I agree with you that gay marriage is not bad and that they should be free to love each other just as straight people can.
I don't identify myself with one religion since I believe in God, but don't particularly believe in all of the sayings and such (such as the whole evolution thing not being true. Then where did the dinosaurs and other things come from?! o_o). >_>
I applaud you for being so open about what you believe in and just want to say that YOU ARE NOT EVIL, but are FAR FROM IT.
You've got an ally in me. ;)
I like this card, very good job. I also agree with what you say. While I believe in God, I respect you and I respect your right to believe what you want to, so I will not try to change your opinion or force my beliefs. I have known you for a while now and I know you are not evil. I also agree with you about love and marriage. My aunt is a lesbian and she is also one of the most amazing people I know. (and not at all evil). Recently I saw her get married to a really great woman who I am happy to have in my family. Their wedding was a beautiful thing to see, they really do have love between them and no one in their right mind could see it and call it evil. So I just want to say, I agree with you 101 percent.
I wanna say one other thing though. I didn't mean to comment-stalk, I was just interested in what people had to say on this matter, and I saw in one of your comments you said you had yet to meet a religious person who wasn't messed up. I just want to say, like I said, I am religious. I respect your beliefs--or what you don't believe--I respect all races, sexual orientations, other religions, et cetera. I just want you to know that not everyone who is religious is crazy.
Last edited by Sarasface at 5:08:42 PM CST on December 16, 2011.
Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.
I was a bit wary about this challenge, as there are SO many religious controversies. It's walking on a fine line of potential offense to those who believe and firmly stand by their religious beliefs. I'm not very religious, and I agree with some of what you've said here. A phrase was brought to mind, though, from your paragraph about the huge "master plan" God has in store for us. Not sure why, but these words came to mind; For a few to be immortal, many must die. Food for thought~
I agree with you, I think there may be a god of sorts, but as far as the bible goes, I can't believe in it. The bible wrote by "man" so why would what we write be real? I have never read the bible, but from what I can tell, a lot of the stuff in the bible seems to contrdict the other things it tells. And I've been reading how love isn't what you feel for your family or you lover, its just simply what you feel for god? I don't buy that at all. And if you don't belive in god, but are a good person, why should you burn in hell?
Ich such dich unter jedem Stein Wo bist du Ich schlaf mit einem Messer ein
King of LLamas (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
Beautiful card~
And i agree with you 100%.
Let the gays be happy! They are just you and me. They are human, some some sort of alien!
And i don't think there is such thing as God. I really don't think he's even in Heaven at all.
Now don't get me wrong, Jesus probably did exist, but i don't think he's roaming around in the clouds watching us. I think his soul's in another body right now. Heck, i could have Leonard Da Vinci's soul in my body for all I know!
This is why I am anticlerical more than anything. And I see Budhism more like a philosophy than a religion, I don't know why because it is a religion .__. I get, though, that some call themselves Christian or Muslim, etc. because they don't have the same God. It's like for Jews and Christian... Jesus wasn't what they wanted for some so they decided to stay Jews while the others became Christians. I think it is very weird to have the exact same God but fight against each other... For the rules, I think the 10th commandments are the only thing both Christians and Jews shall consider, they are the only real explained and given rules of the Pentateuch, after all...
I don't think it's hate in Him. He is just a father and acts like one. But His task is way harder, He has plenty of children and most of them are so disappointing... I feel anger and sadness in His behaviour in those moments more than anything.
I have never felt that God or religion was a problem. It's simply very confusing and corrupted in my eyes, and none of it will ever be something I can believe in. As you said, it is the way men go about using religion. I have always had a problem with religion because it is very demanding, strict and controlling in its own ways and I don't like that at all. I think we can believe in a Godly being, and follow ways of certain religions without having to say "I'm Christian", or "I'm Buddhist" and having to follow all of the rules. Especially since some of the Christian rules are rather contradicting.
I agree with you, that God wasn't always very kind or forgiving at all in the Biblical stories I have read. I felt that there was a lot of hate within Him...
As I told SD previously, my Dad is quite stuck in the 60s. His ideals will never change and he will always "worry" about me and look down upon me and my opinions because I do not believe in God. That's alright though. Even if he doesn't respect me or my opinion, I respect his, though I can't understand it. I'm happy knowing I'm open-minded and kind enough to do that.
Thank you for the comment, and for sharing your opinions. It is nice to discuss things like this whenever it's with someone who is mature, calm, and polite about it.
A large portion of religious people that I have met have told me the same thing - I will be sent to Hell, or that my soul will be lost forever because I do not believe in God, and that is a Sin. God won't be able to forgive me for not believing in a concept so far-fetched (no offense to you). It was rather hurtful when my own parent called me evil for my beliefs, but I've learned a long time ago not to take what he says to heart anyways....I find it very hard to see God as a loving parent with open arms, always welcoming someone and forgiving everyone and loving us all equally. As Felcie mentions in her comment above us, God has been very harsh and angry many times in Biblical stories I have read. He has, in fact, been hateful. In some cases, I can see reasoning behind negative feelings, but everyone always says that he loves us all equally when that is very VERY doubtful.
God's existence is hard to decipher, and most religious people I have met has never had a good answer to His existence. They simply "believe He's there" because of the teachings of the Bible. In most cases, I need some proof that something exists. I believe in miracles, but I do not believe God is the cause of them, so that isn't proof to me. Our existence, and the existence of the Universe is also not proof to me. Because, again, if something created the Universe, I feel that something had to create what created the Universe, etc etc. This is why I'd rather not go into details about his existence and how some things came to be. It's always an endless cycle.
Your answer to human suffering makes sense, and at the same time, it doesn't. Again, if it's all a part of His master plan, it's still not justifiable. Rather the suffering of others is because of human greed and hate or not, it is not fair for others to suffer if it's a part of this "oh-so-loving" Being's plan for us. I believe in a small connection to past lives with present lives, but I do not believe children who are born ill, or children who die soon after birth were necessarily bad in the past life. Though you do have an interesting idea behind that!
Natural disasters do have a scientific reason behind it, perhaps. But I feel that if God loves us all, and He's truly watching over us, He would at least TRY to spare some of the poor lives lost every day to tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes and the like. And if He did love us, why would that be a part of His master plan? I have met many Christians who say that everything that happens is His doings and it doesn't make sense for him to love us if all the tragedies that goes on is His doings. Rather it can be proven God has nothing to do with these disasters and all the innocent lives that are lost or not, my opinion will never budge. To me, God and many things in the Bible seems very unrealistic and unmerciful (again, no offense).
Haha, your comment was long, but it's been a very interesting discussion, so I don't mind. Thank you! :)
I have one close friend who is Christian and strongly believes in God, but she is far from narrow-minded as many other religious people I've met have been. She doesn't believe that animals are only made to be eaten, and she does not believe anyone's soul will be lost if they don't believe in God. I agree with you. Everyone acts like religious people are the kindest people in this world, but most of them are so strict and close-minded.
I have never understood that. Or why Pagans are considered to be such bad people. I have known a few Pagans in the past and they were nice people. People are too ignorant nowadays it seems :/
As a Deist, I can't but agree with you. :)
The problem with those texts like the Bible or the Coran is that believers don't see that the real meaning isn't in the words itself but behind them. They keep only what they want, that way their religion sounds "perfect". But, in Bible, God isn't kind. He made mistakes, he is like angry all the time, learn from his own mistakes... He is a bit like us, actually. And Jesus. Oh dear, Jesus isn't kind either. I could go on and on about it, the Bible is actually a very interesting book to study, everything is in it, it's fascinating... Yes, I studied Bible several times in my life but I'm only 21, I still have things to discover in it. But if you have questions about it, I can try to answer lol
The real problem isn't God or religion, I think it's what men do with it, and they are doing it wrong. Religion has always been a way to control people, unfortunately. :/
Anyway, I really like your card, good luck for the challenge~!
MIKU <3333 just wanted to say i hope your dad realizes that everyone doesn't have to have the same ideas as him and that you are in no way wrong! :) keep your values and stick to 'em!
Wow, I really like your card Miku!
And you gave a powerful description too ^__^
Personally I'm Christian (Anglican), however, I don't judge other people for what they believe in. I agree with you in same sex couples, as well as not believing in God. I think that God who loves every one of us does forgive us if we choose not to love him. He's like a very very loving parent who always welcomes you with open arms, but will love you if you choose not to recognize him. At least, that's what I believe. Love is love, and I don't think that there is anything wrong with that~
I think the point about God's existence is somewhat hard to decipher. Like many things in our universe, there are things that cannot be explained. What created air? Surely air must have been there from the very beginning. It's something like that. God isn't an object or being, so the cycle shouldn't really apply because cycles refers to things.
Hmmm with the suffering. That is a question even people who believe have to suffer with. Why is there so much suffering? I think that because there is so much human greed, anger, hate there will always be innocent people who suffer. Because I believe God gave us freedom to think what and do what we want. Obviously because he loves us so much, he wouldn't want to be controlling what we are doing and thus many cruel things that occur in our world is done by human beings. As for children who are innocent and have never done any sin…this is where it’s difficult to understand. What have they done? Sure their parents could have been the reason for this, but what about children born blind? What about children who died soon after birth? Why does that happen? Well for me, there is a haze of reincarnation that could apply there. Perhaps if you were ‘evil’ in your last life, you are punished in the next. But then what is the definition of ‘evil’ or ‘good’?
For natural disasters, there usually is a scientific reason for why they occur. For example, hurricanes are one of the constant natural disasters but there is a reason why they happen. Hurricanes are one of the many ways nature tries to restore energy balance between the surface and the atmosphere. During the summer months the Sun beats down on the tropical waters and a lot of solar energy is absorbed and stored in those waters, heating them up. A hurricane is essentially a massive heat engine that transfers that excessive heat energy from the waters and the adjacent warm moist air upward into the atmosphere by condensing massive amounts of water vapor. Unfortunately as it does so, the heat is released mostly in the core, which in turn lowers the pressure and accelerates the wind around the core (the eye of the storm). It is a necessary, though sometimes quite destructive, process.
Wow...I kinda wrote a lot, but I really like having discussions about religion! I hope none of my comments showed that I'm pushing my religion onto you; I'm just expressing what I believe! ^__^
Take cares, and good luck in the challenge~!
~Ita-chan
Last edited by ItachiSasuke at 9:44:30 AM CST on December 16, 2011.
Religious people are very messed up, maybe not all but I've yet to meet one that isn't. Not loving the animals that according to the Bible they obey blindly were put on Earth by God so humans can take care of them is very close minded. I suggest they read the New Testament... Amazing how something that's supposed to make people better turns them evil or plain retarded.
Another loophole in the Bible, which is practically what's made of, is idol worshiping. People kiss icons and pray to them despite being told not to in the 10 Commandments (I think that's how they're in English) and to their defense they say they don't pray to the icon but to the one it's representing. Well, sweet, pagans do the same with their sculpted gods, why's it wrong when they're doing it?
Last edited by SakuraDust at 9:39:04 AM CST on December 16, 2011.
And who was it, Abraham (?) who was so willing to sacrifice his own son for God?? What type of teaching is that?
I have had Christian friends tell me that "animals are only put on this planet to be eaten" and that "they have no souls"/ I'm a vegetarian, so I don't believe in eating animals, but I don't mind it when people do and I surely wouldn't ever try to convince someone otherwise since it pisses me off when people try to convince me to eat meat. But for someone to say something like that, when animals are such wonderful friends and companions? I couldn't believe someone could think that, simply because of what the Bible had taught her.
I believe in being selfless, kind and sacrificing for your loved ones (surely not sacrificing your loved ones....>__>) but there are many corrupted things in the Bible...
The Bible is full of animal cruelty and sacrifice. I remember it was this one tale of a man who was supposed to send the first person he meets from his home village in the desert as a sacrifice for God. The first person he saw was his daughter and he sent her to her death in the desert while she happily agreed, all for God's worshiping. It's sinister!
And it's not the only tale that goes like this. Between the teachings about kindness there are horrible tales.
There are plenty of things I find more Sinful in marriage than gay couples. I think couples who beat each other are more Sinful than gay couples.
I can sorta understand my Dad's reasoning for saying what he did, as he seems to be stuck in the 60s still and he has been raised on the Bible since a very early age. But to say something like that to your own child, doesn't really seem fair to me.
I don't understand how some people can buy what's in that book since I've heard from some of my own Christian friends that there are many contradicting things in it o__O
At first I thought it was a sympathy for the devil card. Love your description, if gay couples dirty the sanctity of marriage what about straight couples who divorce after 2 days? It's nothing wrong with you, I believe in Divinity, but not exactly God from the Bible, in other words I don't buy anything written in that book. However, I do think there's a higher power out there, but not as we describe it.
Sarasface
Ethereal Wanderer (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 01/06/12 | Reply
@ilovetamaki:
Thank you!
Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.
ilovetamaki
Grand Otaku | Posted 01/05/12 | Reply
@Sarasface:
I highly respect you for your comment. <3
ilovetamaki
Grand Otaku | Posted 01/05/12 | Reply
Oh jeez!!! I keep coming across such amazing views and outlooks and what-not on this challenge, and I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!!!! People should be able to love who they want and just because someone is homosexual or any of the sort does not make them Evil. Just because you don't believe in a god (Me either) does NOT make you/us evil! Evil is something greater than just that. Evil is chaos, hate, genocide, destruction, and pain. People who go and say "Homosexuals are going to hell" or "Homosexuals won't be saved" is such an awful thing to say. It's HATEFUL! It's evil. Why would someone go around and tell you or anyone else that they are going to hell for going against the bible or their teachings when that's just horrible and awful to do to begin with! I have nothing wrong with Christians or any other religion follower, BUT it's not okay to be hurtful like that. I know christians who will keep their mouth shut rather than saying "BURN IN HELL YOU HOMO" or some radical comment like that. So kudos to the people who are kind and actually christian-like like they are supposed to be. You're not following a religion if you are just going to be a hypocrite.
Wow this is such a big rant. Im sorry ._.
wingedshadowwolf
Otaku Eternal | Posted 12/22/11 | Reply
@envythejealous:
I just read your comment in Envy's voice LOL
wingedshadowwolf
Otaku Eternal | Posted 12/22/11 | Reply
Bravo! You are a critical thinker! I like your point of view.
Mine are slightly diffrent, but that is what makes people awesome! If we were all the same, it'd be boring. I may forward this to one of my like minded friends.
DemonsandAngels
Beautiful Disaster (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/20/11 | Reply
Wow, this really is a touchy subject. haha. But, I do want to say that it isn't God who thinks gay people are wrong or that interracial relations are sinful. It's the people. There is no where in the bible that says this. And, the people that are using bible verses to justify what they feel aren't actually reading the whole bible. They are taking what they want out of it. I bet the same people that told you that the bible says gays are sinful have trimmed beards (or none at all), right? Well, Leviticus says that people shouldn't trim their beards or throw around a pigskin, so no football, or eat pork. I believe these verses and chapters are for that time period, and since we have evolved as people and the times having changed, people don't need to follow Leviticus as strictly. But, I got off topic.... What I wanted to point out is that God loves everyone no matter what. He wouldn't have created them if he hated them. People are afraid of what is different and then twist things to their perspective. Also, on the why children suffer and whatnot, it's because God gave us free will. It's people's fault, not His. He can only do so much.
I'm not trying to change your point of view. If you don't believe in God, that is perfectly fine, I am not going to judge you, but please take into consideration that it is the people that think this way, not God. God loves everything and everyone.
envythejealous
It's "hello," sir. (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/19/11 | Reply
I don't get why there's always stuff in the news where people complain about gay marriage. Like you said, love is love, and I don't understand why people have to make such a big fuss over gay marriage. I don't know why being gay is a 'sin' either. Same thing with interracial couples. Why? I mean, weren't people supposed to get over racism back in the sixties or whatever? I never heard about interracial couples being a sin until you brought it up (I saw a white man and a black woman get married in my church last year). Does that mean I'd be a 'sinner' if I dated a boy who was a different race than me? People need to quit putting all this bs about gay and interracial couples on national news because it's really getting annoying.. )<
ANYWAYS, I'll stop ranting about that.
Personally I think you went about talking about the subject and your beliefs maturely. It seems like a lot of people nowadays blow up and breathe fire when other people have different beliefs than theirs. You're like the only atheist I know that can ask these kind of questions without offending me because you say things that are completely understandable instead of saying 'I hate Christianity and God is stupid and blah blah' like all my atheist friends must say (or at least one person that always makes it a point to say when I'm around that's friends with my best friend).
Also I saw one of your comments where you said something about everyone thinking religious people are the nicest people in the world and you don't agree. I agree with you. There was this lady at my old church that always roared at at least three kids every Sunday for something dumb like running in the halls or going into the office. She was so mean she even yelled at parents when they yelled at her for yelling at their kids. People sometimes...
Anyways I really like the text you used, and good luck in the challenge!
BabyD
Barton (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/19/11 | Reply
First of all, this card is amazing!! the colors, effects, typography, well everything looks gorgeous! you did an amazing work *bows*
And about your description I read it all and I totally agreed with you, even thou I do believe in God I do not believe in the concept of the bible, church, etc.
Kaerlyn
Tea pixie (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/17/11 | Reply
Wow. To both sides of this argument --- Enough of the broad sweeping generalisations here!
Miku, your Dad thinks some strange things. I'm sorry he hurt you, he is wrong. Of course you aren't evil! And his other points are wrong in my opinion too.
I do think that people shouldn't label each other based on limited experiences. Saying things such as 'religious people are closed minded' just sounds insulting. Even if most of the ones you have met ARE closed minded, that by no means implies that EVERYONE is.
Religion is personal. My belief is personal. I still have a lot to think over...
ANYWAY! I really like the card. I hadn't seen this challenge before... Your Typography is lovely <3
MewChero
Neko Girl (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/17/11 | Reply
@SakuraDust:
No one actually sacrificed a Human...except for when Abraham almost did and when Jesus died for us.
*shrugs* But yet...I am not an expert.
SakuraDust
Moderator | Posted 12/17/11 | Reply
@MewChero:
I understand what you mean, I just don't agree with it.
Crops are alright, but I was only talking about the human sacrifice part, I'm glad we agree that the Bible has gruesome stuff in it.
MewChero
Neko Girl (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/17/11 | Reply
@SakuraDust:
Not all sacrifices were living things. If you've read the old testament people gave some of their harvest of crops to God. The point of a sacrifice is to give up something you worked hard with. Most of the people talked about in the bible raised animals...so they gave up their largest calf or lamb. Cain was a farmer, so he gave a portion of his crops.
Besides. Sacrifices of animals ect...have no meaning to Christians now since Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. Jews still practice it, but in their life style instead. They do not eat pork or mix dairy and meat.
Yes...the Old testament was gruesome in some spots, but that is not what Christianity is all about. Three religions use the Old Testament. Jews, Muslims and Christians. Both Muslims and Christians add onto it and it's no longer the focus.
And because we sin we put a dent in our relationship with God...think of in the old testament...a sacrifice being an apology...Now we have Jesus to apologize for us. I am putting this in a simplest terms as I can. I'm sorry if you cannot comprehend.
Last edited by MewChero at 4:56:50 PM CST on December 17, 2011.
SakuraDust
Moderator | Posted 12/17/11 | Reply
@MewChero:
And why should I know how painful it was for a divinity that might or might not exist to lose its son, that again, has a questionable existence? The Bible doesn't make any sense, if God's as awesome as that book makes it sound he shouldn't force a human that He loves so much to suffer or commit a horrid sin such as sacrifice. It's not the sin itself that bugs me, sin is natural for humans, but the fact that it's regarded as a good, encouraged thing to kill in the name of God. That's wrong and contradicting to so many teachings of the Bible.
MewChero
Neko Girl (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/17/11 | Reply
@Morbid Dollie:
I was answering your questions. You also said, "If anyone can answer my questions then please do"
MewChero
Neko Girl (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/17/11 | Reply
@SakuraDust:
That was a way for us to see how painful it was for God to lose his own Son for us. *shrugs* I guess it's something to be looked at from a distance and see the whole picture.
And God stopped Abraham.
Morbid Dollie
Strawberry (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/17/11 | Reply
@MewChero:
Killing is Sin, so killing loved ones does NOT cleanse anyone. To me, it's still bull. Believe it if you want, I don't mind. Just please quit trying to answer this. I already stated it in the description I didn't want any of that. I don't mind discussing opinions, but trying to explain why it's sin is upsetting me.
Last edited by MikuBerry at 3:33:55 PM CST on December 17, 2011.
-those with the biggest hearts hurt the most
SakuraDust
Moderator | Posted 12/17/11 | Reply
@MewChero:
How does killing loved ones cleanse of sin?
MewChero
Neko Girl (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/17/11 | Reply
@SakuraDust:
The animal cruelty thing? and the sacrifices? Old news. Jesus died so we would not have to do that anymore. :) The sacrifices were needed to cleanse us of sin.
MewChero
Neko Girl (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/17/11 | Reply
This contest had brought up some fun discussion. I will answer some of your questions as a Christian who is attending a Christian University (I through that out there, because I will mention some professors with PHD.'s) I also LOVE science...and though I do not like all of what Darwin teaches I know there is some evolution.
Why is gay marriage Sin? The gay marriage is not a sin, nor is being gay a sin. It's the acting upon lustful homosexual desires that is the sin. And God loves sinners. It's people who hate sinners. You have to remember that not all people follow God's will to a T...Like your dad was not being very Christian like...Jesus loved all those that the Pharisees hated because of their sins. Plus, Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself. Love is not the sin...It's the way people show their love that can be a sin.
Now...I will switch to science. Think of it this way...What could homosexual love be if not relating to sin (as in wanting to act upon those desires)? There is not evolutionary reason to be homosexual. You cannot reproduce that way...so why would people fall in love with the same sex? there has to be something bigger out there. Whether it was caused by the devil, Allah, Buddha, Zeus or God. You have to consider there is more than just science. How can anyone deny the possible of their being SOMETHING more when scientifically being homosexual does not make sense. Even animals who sometimes have homosexual tendencies male horses often practice on each other take a heterosexual mate.
I could go on...but I have to go eat lunch. lol Please do not group all Christians into one group. Many of us are very nice and actually follow the teachings of our Lord Jesus....But others do not...and they give us a bad name. Just like not all Muslims are Terrorist...Not all of us Christians are messed up.
josephine12cute
Otaku Legend | Posted 12/17/11 | Reply
Thanks to this card, I'm now having doubts on how society really thinks of same sex marriage, straight people, the Divinity of Marriage and the never ending issue of Morality.
I do believe in God. But for those aspects, I can't help but contradict what the Bible says. There are lots of LGBT's here in the Philippines and they've been a large part of society but then they're being criticized and humiliated for having same sex marriage.
Religion did taught me on doing what makes me happy, but then when you put this issue, Religion is the first one to go against you. I'm thinking "does happiness has it's own boundaries as well?".
I feel I'm being faithful to my heart rather than my own Religion. I'm not an Atheist nor an LGBT but this issue made me pissed off at society so much. I understand what you wanted to say and you did a great job! :)
TwinkLes
Otaku Legend | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
Love the typography sooo much!
Although I believe in God, I really respect you for thinking everything through. I can appreciate people who really ponder over the subject, rather than just saying "I believe because I was told to" or "this sounds stupid" or something. I don't agree with you on every point you made, but I agree with some of your ideas and think it's wonderful that you think about things deeply. ^_^
kilalalover
Sheep Eternal (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
Your card is beautiful.
And I agree very much with you. I am an interacial child and I don't think it's wrong to be one. I agree with you that gay marriage is not bad and that they should be free to love each other just as straight people can.
I don't identify myself with one religion since I believe in God, but don't particularly believe in all of the sayings and such (such as the whole evolution thing not being true. Then where did the dinosaurs and other things come from?! o_o). >_>
I applaud you for being so open about what you believe in and just want to say that YOU ARE NOT EVIL, but are FAR FROM IT.
You've got an ally in me. ;)
Sarasface
Ethereal Wanderer (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
I like this card, very good job. I also agree with what you say. While I believe in God, I respect you and I respect your right to believe what you want to, so I will not try to change your opinion or force my beliefs. I have known you for a while now and I know you are not evil. I also agree with you about love and marriage. My aunt is a lesbian and she is also one of the most amazing people I know. (and not at all evil). Recently I saw her get married to a really great woman who I am happy to have in my family. Their wedding was a beautiful thing to see, they really do have love between them and no one in their right mind could see it and call it evil. So I just want to say, I agree with you 101 percent.
I wanna say one other thing though. I didn't mean to comment-stalk, I was just interested in what people had to say on this matter, and I saw in one of your comments you said you had yet to meet a religious person who wasn't messed up. I just want to say, like I said, I am religious. I respect your beliefs--or what you don't believe--I respect all races, sexual orientations, other religions, et cetera. I just want you to know that not everyone who is religious is crazy.
Last edited by Sarasface at 5:08:42 PM CST on December 16, 2011.
Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.
Hulaberry32
Primadonna (Otaku Legend) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
I was a bit wary about this challenge, as there are SO many religious controversies. It's walking on a fine line of potential offense to those who believe and firmly stand by their religious beliefs. I'm not very religious, and I agree with some of what you've said here. A phrase was brought to mind, though, from your paragraph about the huge "master plan" God has in store for us. Not sure why, but these words came to mind; For a few to be immortal, many must die. Food for thought~
XkeyofdestinyX
Psychopath (Grand Otaku) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
@SakuraDust:
I agree with you, I think there may be a god of sorts, but as far as the bible goes, I can't believe in it. The bible wrote by "man" so why would what we write be real? I have never read the bible, but from what I can tell, a lot of the stuff in the bible seems to contrdict the other things it tells. And I've been reading how love isn't what you feel for your family or you lover, its just simply what you feel for god? I don't buy that at all. And if you don't belive in god, but are a good person, why should you burn in hell?
Ich such dich unter jedem Stein Wo bist du Ich schlaf mit einem Messer ein
21Emmz12
King of LLamas (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
Beautiful card~
And i agree with you 100%.
Let the gays be happy! They are just you and me. They are human, some some sort of alien!
And i don't think there is such thing as God. I really don't think he's even in Heaven at all.
Now don't get me wrong, Jesus probably did exist, but i don't think he's roaming around in the clouds watching us. I think his soul's in another body right now. Heck, i could have Leonard Da Vinci's soul in my body for all I know!
Anyhoo, that's my views ^^'
C yaz!! C:
Alwayz BELIEVE
Felcie
Unicorn Lover (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
@Morbid Dollie:
This is why I am anticlerical more than anything. And I see Budhism more like a philosophy than a religion, I don't know why because it is a religion .__. I get, though, that some call themselves Christian or Muslim, etc. because they don't have the same God. It's like for Jews and Christian... Jesus wasn't what they wanted for some so they decided to stay Jews while the others became Christians. I think it is very weird to have the exact same God but fight against each other... For the rules, I think the 10th commandments are the only thing both Christians and Jews shall consider, they are the only real explained and given rules of the Pentateuch, after all...
I don't think it's hate in Him. He is just a father and acts like one. But His task is way harder, He has plenty of children and most of them are so disappointing... I feel anger and sadness in His behaviour in those moments more than anything.
Morbid Dollie
Strawberry (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
@kamichama karin s:
Awww =3=
Thank you! <33
-those with the biggest hearts hurt the most
Morbid Dollie
Strawberry (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
@Felcie:
I have never felt that God or religion was a problem. It's simply very confusing and corrupted in my eyes, and none of it will ever be something I can believe in. As you said, it is the way men go about using religion. I have always had a problem with religion because it is very demanding, strict and controlling in its own ways and I don't like that at all. I think we can believe in a Godly being, and follow ways of certain religions without having to say "I'm Christian", or "I'm Buddhist" and having to follow all of the rules. Especially since some of the Christian rules are rather contradicting.
I agree with you, that God wasn't always very kind or forgiving at all in the Biblical stories I have read. I felt that there was a lot of hate within Him...
-those with the biggest hearts hurt the most
Morbid Dollie
Strawberry (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
@DistantStar:
Hi sweetie <3
As I told SD previously, my Dad is quite stuck in the 60s. His ideals will never change and he will always "worry" about me and look down upon me and my opinions because I do not believe in God. That's alright though. Even if he doesn't respect me or my opinion, I respect his, though I can't understand it. I'm happy knowing I'm open-minded and kind enough to do that.
-those with the biggest hearts hurt the most
Morbid Dollie
Strawberry (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
@ItachiSasuke:
Thank you for the comment, and for sharing your opinions. It is nice to discuss things like this whenever it's with someone who is mature, calm, and polite about it.
A large portion of religious people that I have met have told me the same thing - I will be sent to Hell, or that my soul will be lost forever because I do not believe in God, and that is a Sin. God won't be able to forgive me for not believing in a concept so far-fetched (no offense to you). It was rather hurtful when my own parent called me evil for my beliefs, but I've learned a long time ago not to take what he says to heart anyways....I find it very hard to see God as a loving parent with open arms, always welcoming someone and forgiving everyone and loving us all equally. As Felcie mentions in her comment above us, God has been very harsh and angry many times in Biblical stories I have read. He has, in fact, been hateful. In some cases, I can see reasoning behind negative feelings, but everyone always says that he loves us all equally when that is very VERY doubtful.
God's existence is hard to decipher, and most religious people I have met has never had a good answer to His existence. They simply "believe He's there" because of the teachings of the Bible. In most cases, I need some proof that something exists. I believe in miracles, but I do not believe God is the cause of them, so that isn't proof to me. Our existence, and the existence of the Universe is also not proof to me. Because, again, if something created the Universe, I feel that something had to create what created the Universe, etc etc. This is why I'd rather not go into details about his existence and how some things came to be. It's always an endless cycle.
Your answer to human suffering makes sense, and at the same time, it doesn't. Again, if it's all a part of His master plan, it's still not justifiable. Rather the suffering of others is because of human greed and hate or not, it is not fair for others to suffer if it's a part of this "oh-so-loving" Being's plan for us. I believe in a small connection to past lives with present lives, but I do not believe children who are born ill, or children who die soon after birth were necessarily bad in the past life. Though you do have an interesting idea behind that!
Natural disasters do have a scientific reason behind it, perhaps. But I feel that if God loves us all, and He's truly watching over us, He would at least TRY to spare some of the poor lives lost every day to tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes and the like. And if He did love us, why would that be a part of His master plan? I have met many Christians who say that everything that happens is His doings and it doesn't make sense for him to love us if all the tragedies that goes on is His doings. Rather it can be proven God has nothing to do with these disasters and all the innocent lives that are lost or not, my opinion will never budge. To me, God and many things in the Bible seems very unrealistic and unmerciful (again, no offense).
Haha, your comment was long, but it's been a very interesting discussion, so I don't mind. Thank you! :)
-those with the biggest hearts hurt the most
Morbid Dollie
Strawberry (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
@SakuraDust:
I have one close friend who is Christian and strongly believes in God, but she is far from narrow-minded as many other religious people I've met have been. She doesn't believe that animals are only made to be eaten, and she does not believe anyone's soul will be lost if they don't believe in God. I agree with you. Everyone acts like religious people are the kindest people in this world, but most of them are so strict and close-minded.
I have never understood that. Or why Pagans are considered to be such bad people. I have known a few Pagans in the past and they were nice people. People are too ignorant nowadays it seems :/
-those with the biggest hearts hurt the most
kamichama karin s
Otaku Legend | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
"To me, none of this is Sin. Love is love, regardless of who shares it. "
poetry miku...pure poetry.
<3
Felcie
Unicorn Lover (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
As a Deist, I can't but agree with you. :)
The problem with those texts like the Bible or the Coran is that believers don't see that the real meaning isn't in the words itself but behind them. They keep only what they want, that way their religion sounds "perfect". But, in Bible, God isn't kind. He made mistakes, he is like angry all the time, learn from his own mistakes... He is a bit like us, actually. And Jesus. Oh dear, Jesus isn't kind either. I could go on and on about it, the Bible is actually a very interesting book to study, everything is in it, it's fascinating... Yes, I studied Bible several times in my life but I'm only 21, I still have things to discover in it. But if you have questions about it, I can try to answer lol
The real problem isn't God or religion, I think it's what men do with it, and they are doing it wrong. Religion has always been a way to control people, unfortunately. :/
Anyway, I really like your card, good luck for the challenge~!
DistantStar
Otaku Legend | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
MIKU <3333 just wanted to say i hope your dad realizes that everyone doesn't have to have the same ideas as him and that you are in no way wrong! :) keep your values and stick to 'em!
ItachiSasuke
Administrator | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
Wow, I really like your card Miku!
And you gave a powerful description too ^__^
Personally I'm Christian (Anglican), however, I don't judge other people for what they believe in. I agree with you in same sex couples, as well as not believing in God. I think that God who loves every one of us does forgive us if we choose not to love him. He's like a very very loving parent who always welcomes you with open arms, but will love you if you choose not to recognize him. At least, that's what I believe. Love is love, and I don't think that there is anything wrong with that~
I think the point about God's existence is somewhat hard to decipher. Like many things in our universe, there are things that cannot be explained. What created air? Surely air must have been there from the very beginning. It's something like that. God isn't an object or being, so the cycle shouldn't really apply because cycles refers to things.
Hmmm with the suffering. That is a question even people who believe have to suffer with. Why is there so much suffering? I think that because there is so much human greed, anger, hate there will always be innocent people who suffer. Because I believe God gave us freedom to think what and do what we want. Obviously because he loves us so much, he wouldn't want to be controlling what we are doing and thus many cruel things that occur in our world is done by human beings. As for children who are innocent and have never done any sin…this is where it’s difficult to understand. What have they done? Sure their parents could have been the reason for this, but what about children born blind? What about children who died soon after birth? Why does that happen? Well for me, there is a haze of reincarnation that could apply there. Perhaps if you were ‘evil’ in your last life, you are punished in the next. But then what is the definition of ‘evil’ or ‘good’?
For natural disasters, there usually is a scientific reason for why they occur. For example, hurricanes are one of the constant natural disasters but there is a reason why they happen. Hurricanes are one of the many ways nature tries to restore energy balance between the surface and the atmosphere. During the summer months the Sun beats down on the tropical waters and a lot of solar energy is absorbed and stored in those waters, heating them up. A hurricane is essentially a massive heat engine that transfers that excessive heat energy from the waters and the adjacent warm moist air upward into the atmosphere by condensing massive amounts of water vapor. Unfortunately as it does so, the heat is released mostly in the core, which in turn lowers the pressure and accelerates the wind around the core (the eye of the storm). It is a necessary, though sometimes quite destructive, process.
Wow...I kinda wrote a lot, but I really like having discussions about religion! I hope none of my comments showed that I'm pushing my religion onto you; I'm just expressing what I believe! ^__^
Take cares, and good luck in the challenge~!
~Ita-chan
Last edited by ItachiSasuke at 9:44:30 AM CST on December 16, 2011.
Find a reason to smile
SakuraDust
Moderator | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
@Morbid Dollie:
Religious people are very messed up, maybe not all but I've yet to meet one that isn't. Not loving the animals that according to the Bible they obey blindly were put on Earth by God so humans can take care of them is very close minded. I suggest they read the New Testament... Amazing how something that's supposed to make people better turns them evil or plain retarded.
Another loophole in the Bible, which is practically what's made of, is idol worshiping. People kiss icons and pray to them despite being told not to in the 10 Commandments (I think that's how they're in English) and to their defense they say they don't pray to the icon but to the one it's representing. Well, sweet, pagans do the same with their sculpted gods, why's it wrong when they're doing it?
Last edited by SakuraDust at 9:39:04 AM CST on December 16, 2011.
Morbid Dollie
Strawberry (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
@SakuraDust:
That's horrible T___T
And who was it, Abraham (?) who was so willing to sacrifice his own son for God?? What type of teaching is that?
I have had Christian friends tell me that "animals are only put on this planet to be eaten" and that "they have no souls"/ I'm a vegetarian, so I don't believe in eating animals, but I don't mind it when people do and I surely wouldn't ever try to convince someone otherwise since it pisses me off when people try to convince me to eat meat. But for someone to say something like that, when animals are such wonderful friends and companions? I couldn't believe someone could think that, simply because of what the Bible had taught her.
I believe in being selfless, kind and sacrificing for your loved ones (surely not sacrificing your loved ones....>__>) but there are many corrupted things in the Bible...
-those with the biggest hearts hurt the most
SakuraDust
Moderator | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
@Morbid Dollie:
The Bible is full of animal cruelty and sacrifice. I remember it was this one tale of a man who was supposed to send the first person he meets from his home village in the desert as a sacrifice for God. The first person he saw was his daughter and he sent her to her death in the desert while she happily agreed, all for God's worshiping. It's sinister!
And it's not the only tale that goes like this. Between the teachings about kindness there are horrible tales.
Morbid Dollie
Strawberry (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
@SakuraDust:
There are plenty of things I find more Sinful in marriage than gay couples. I think couples who beat each other are more Sinful than gay couples.
I can sorta understand my Dad's reasoning for saying what he did, as he seems to be stuck in the 60s still and he has been raised on the Bible since a very early age. But to say something like that to your own child, doesn't really seem fair to me.
I don't understand how some people can buy what's in that book since I've heard from some of my own Christian friends that there are many contradicting things in it o__O
-those with the biggest hearts hurt the most
SakuraDust
Moderator | Posted 12/16/11 | Reply
At first I thought it was a sympathy for the devil card. Love your description, if gay couples dirty the sanctity of marriage what about straight couples who divorce after 2 days? It's nothing wrong with you, I believe in Divinity, but not exactly God from the Bible, in other words I don't buy anything written in that book. However, I do think there's a higher power out there, but not as we describe it.