I'm glad I could contribute to the discussion! Feel free to use that ideas. Another article on character development would surely be welcomed - at least by me.
One more thing: Though a character may be incredibly powerful in terms of combat, that doesn't automatically qualifies him/her as a Sue. It depends on the focus of the story. If it's an action story, having a protagonist who can beat up whoever shows up is just lame... But making him face a romantic relationship, family's issues or anything else that can't be solved through combat can actually be very interesting.
An example? Souzuke Sagara from Full Metal Panic! He's the perfect soldier. He is proficient with any kind of weapon, explosives, heck, even mechas! But his social skills are just a disgrace, and that's what makes the series so good, at least for me: in the episodes focused on his life disguised as a student, his "war-driven" way to think only creates hilarious situations. Now, when the series turns onto the "serious" part of the story, it's actually weak, because Souzuke is just too perfect for a those situations.
That's a very good reading! I'll surely pay attention to those tips from now on, when creating and developing my characters.
Though I would just like to add that I think that almost every writer begins with Mary-Sues (unless you're Shakespeare reincarnated, and I guess even he had his share of Sues when he started). I think that's because, when we're young, we have only ourselves as reference, so every character ends up as a projection of the writer, his/her flaws and fantasies. An experienced writer evolves from that point, and develops more solid, interesting characters. I hope to be on that path, and I'm sure your article will help me with that.
I love the "Anti-Sue Raid Brigade" thing. X) While you don't directly jump people and flame them, you give them a nudge to go back and revise. Very nice! I had a Naruto OC, but I didn't make her a ninja, which made her a rarity. This was very informative and you take a lot of time to think about these things. Thanks a lot!!
There's a way to make an invulnerable character interesting-and that is to give a condition to their invulnerability. For example, there was a villain in the Marvel universe known as 'The Living Monolith' who was invincible....as long as he was in the sunlight. Also, we can give someone an Achilles ankle: The Juggernaut was physically unstoppable, but vulnerable to mental attacks. And of course, there was the little known 1960s villain 'Unus the Untouchable' who was, as the name says, untouchable because of his forcefield. However, he died when he lost control and suffocated in his forcefield.
This is awesome! I sent this to my friend, and she thinks so too. Both of us have these OC's who have some Mary Sue traits, so we can use your guide to fix them. I don't usually comment on these, but I had to tell you how awesome I thought this was.
cool article. I didn't read the entire thing,but what I read was good. I'll admit...but I do think most people on the O don't know how to make a good character. Most of the OC's or fan characters (you sort of lumped those two together in this article) on this site are only means to create a melodramatic and poorly thought out romance with naruto, sasuke, inuyasha, and any other popular anime bishounen you could think of. In that respect, I'm sort of against fan characters all together.
OC's however, I can relate to.
I think that when it comes down to it. A true OC has to have a connection with the artist. The artist/author has to know that character like he/she would know a friend. Sounds geeky, but a really good OC is a character that the author has to take time to develop and get to know. It can't be a character that's thought up overnight or over the course of a couple days.
*Ahem, getting off my soap box* I also like your points about powers and stuff like that. On the first page I read your description of Inuyasha and it sounded like Spiderman, excluding the claws and fangs lol. On the powers thing, I think that the more common powers are okay if they're used in the right way. For example, elemental powers and teleportation. Telekinesis is fun too, but it's hard to pull it off in a comic. As for things like strength and invulnerability, they just make the character and the comic more boring.
well I should stop this is turning out to be really long.
Good, I'm not the only one, and by looking at all the other comments I gather this happens to a bunch of other people...
But if you look at the fanfiction that was published before this, it doesn't have that problem at all! Maybe someone should ask Adam how to nullify it...?
'Neways, this is a really good guide. There are many things that instantly put your OC as a Sue, and I'm glad you mentioned so many.
This was a great read!I'm sure a lot of people will use this ,as will I.Even though it's kinda long,you kept it simple and straight to the point.I suggest anyone wanting to create an OC should read this.
i myself agree with most parts of the article, but i think the "name" game should've been placed in a bit more degree. it is a bit unoriginal for everyone and their mother's name to be sakura (in a non-naruto related fanfiction), and full metal alchemist typically does not use japanese related names. i state that only because i have read some fanfictions (or fan mangas) that have japanese names for EVERYTHING! i was reading a harry potter fanfic and the person's name was japanese, and their character wasn't...very very odd.
and just a few points i wish to make in general to anyone else that wishes is trying to make an oc.
please consider your back story for your character!! please! using naruto fanfics as a basis (unfortunately, naruto fanfics are where i read all the bad ones...v_v) if your character likes sasuke, please don't make her/him an emo kid who's clan got destroyed and she has no family and she bent on revenge upon someone. i mean, reading that, she/he sounds exactly like sasuke! sasuke might as well date himself! (and as silly as it sounds, there are countless fanfics like that) also, the "new kid" in town, is getting kinda old. while in some cases it can't be helped, if you do resort to it, then make it a little more interesting then just them showing up randomly.
but i guess the biggest point i want to make is, despite what people tell you about your fanfic, write the fanfic for yourself. don't write it to please other people, the advise that Markus wolfe and others give you is not set in stone rules that u MUST follow, but help so you can make it better. but always have fun. don't forget that. not everyone is going to like your character. and your always going to have oc haters, don't let that discourage you.
so yah...great article, i really like how you showed us the creation of your character as a great reference. any newb to writing fanfics should read this. ^^
Quite an interesting article. I enjoyed reading it in spite of a few mistakes (like the punctuation, you might want to format that since it draws attention from what you're saying).
I agree with what you stated here and I would like to add one thing: it's practically impossible to create something completely new, you have to work with something that already exists. In this case, it is important to present the character/story in a different way than you'd normally encounter in fanfics -objective is best, if you fall into the pit of subjectiveness, it's like we're reading a fanfic about you, not your character.
I hope people won't be discouraged upon seeing the number of pages, this is a very useful read for fanfiction writers and beginners alike. It would indeed help out a lot if they read this, maybe the Internet wouldn't be "polluted" with so many poor-written stories.
Sole Storyteller
Otaku Legend | Posted 06/02/09 | Reply
@Markus wolfe:
I'm glad I could contribute to the discussion! Feel free to use that ideas. Another article on character development would surely be welcomed - at least by me.
Markus wolfe
Grand Otaku | Posted 06/02/09 | Reply
@Sole Storyteller:
There is truth and merit in your words. Perhaps I should create and another article expanding on that line of thought.
Sole Storyteller
Otaku Legend | Posted 06/02/09 | Reply
One more thing: Though a character may be incredibly powerful in terms of combat, that doesn't automatically qualifies him/her as a Sue. It depends on the focus of the story. If it's an action story, having a protagonist who can beat up whoever shows up is just lame... But making him face a romantic relationship, family's issues or anything else that can't be solved through combat can actually be very interesting.
An example? Souzuke Sagara from Full Metal Panic! He's the perfect soldier. He is proficient with any kind of weapon, explosives, heck, even mechas! But his social skills are just a disgrace, and that's what makes the series so good, at least for me: in the episodes focused on his life disguised as a student, his "war-driven" way to think only creates hilarious situations. Now, when the series turns onto the "serious" part of the story, it's actually weak, because Souzuke is just too perfect for a those situations.
Sole Storyteller
Otaku Legend | Posted 06/02/09 | Reply
That's a very good reading! I'll surely pay attention to those tips from now on, when creating and developing my characters.
Though I would just like to add that I think that almost every writer begins with Mary-Sues (unless you're Shakespeare reincarnated, and I guess even he had his share of Sues when he started). I think that's because, when we're young, we have only ourselves as reference, so every character ends up as a projection of the writer, his/her flaws and fantasies. An experienced writer evolves from that point, and develops more solid, interesting characters. I hope to be on that path, and I'm sure your article will help me with that.
LoveKouichi
Professor Tardis (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 10/11/08 | Reply
Interesting! I think this might help me out when creating some NEW characters.
Wait...my brother is a Mary-Sue?! NOOOOOOO!!!! What have I done?!
Last edited by LoveKouichi at 8:29:03 AM EDT on October 13, 2008.
lazyweird1
Grand Otaku | Posted 07/02/08 | Reply
I love the "Anti-Sue Raid Brigade" thing. X) While you don't directly jump people and flame them, you give them a nudge to go back and revise. Very nice! I had a Naruto OC, but I didn't make her a ninja, which made her a rarity. This was very informative and you take a lot of time to think about these things. Thanks a lot!!
Markus wolfe
Grand Otaku | Posted 07/01/08 | Reply
@pokkypok:
Sweet! I've actually accomplished something in this never-ending crusade against bad fanfiction!
Markus wolfe
Grand Otaku | Posted 07/01/08 | Reply
@theblackERspot:
There's a way to make an invulnerable character interesting-and that is to give a condition to their invulnerability. For example, there was a villain in the Marvel universe known as 'The Living Monolith' who was invincible....as long as he was in the sunlight. Also, we can give someone an Achilles ankle: The Juggernaut was physically unstoppable, but vulnerable to mental attacks. And of course, there was the little known 1960s villain 'Unus the Untouchable' who was, as the name says, untouchable because of his forcefield. However, he died when he lost control and suffocated in his forcefield.
pokkypok
Otakuite+ | Posted 06/28/08 | Reply
This is awesome! I sent this to my friend, and she thinks so too. Both of us have these OC's who have some Mary Sue traits, so we can use your guide to fix them. I don't usually comment on these, but I had to tell you how awesome I thought this was.
theblackERspot
Otaku Eternal | Posted 06/27/08 | Reply
cool article. I didn't read the entire thing,but what I read was good. I'll admit...but I do think most people on the O don't know how to make a good character. Most of the OC's or fan characters (you sort of lumped those two together in this article) on this site are only means to create a melodramatic and poorly thought out romance with naruto, sasuke, inuyasha, and any other popular anime bishounen you could think of. In that respect, I'm sort of against fan characters all together.
OC's however, I can relate to.
I think that when it comes down to it. A true OC has to have a connection with the artist. The artist/author has to know that character like he/she would know a friend. Sounds geeky, but a really good OC is a character that the author has to take time to develop and get to know. It can't be a character that's thought up overnight or over the course of a couple days.
*Ahem, getting off my soap box* I also like your points about powers and stuff like that. On the first page I read your description of Inuyasha and it sounded like Spiderman, excluding the claws and fangs lol. On the powers thing, I think that the more common powers are okay if they're used in the right way. For example, elemental powers and teleportation. Telekinesis is fun too, but it's hard to pull it off in a comic. As for things like strength and invulnerability, they just make the character and the comic more boring.
well I should stop this is turning out to be really long.
SomeGuy
Canadian Liaison (Team) | Posted 06/23/08 | Reply
@Markus wolfe:
Yeah, it's a punctuation problem that's affecting Fan Words right now; it'll still look fine on your personal World, though.
We're workin' on it.
mewmewpudding
Otaku Eternal | Posted 06/22/08 | Reply
@:
Good, I'm not the only one, and by looking at all the other comments I gather this happens to a bunch of other people...
But if you look at the fanfiction that was published before this, it doesn't have that problem at all! Maybe someone should ask Adam how to nullify it...?
'Neways, this is a really good guide. There are many things that instantly put your OC as a Sue, and I'm glad you mentioned so many.
Good outline on how to make them better. :]
Dicer
Otakuite++ | Posted 06/22/08 | Reply
*whips out bazooka* I. Can't. Stand. Immortal. Singing. Celestial. Maidens.
Lovely read though! :)
Markus wolfe
Grand Otaku | Posted 06/22/08 | Reply
Blast it! those bizzare things are replacing my 's! well, I should just be happy that my work has been well recieved.
Summer Daydream
Mahou Shoujo (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 06/22/08 | Reply
This was a great read!I'm sure a lot of people will use this ,as will I.Even though it's kinda long,you kept it simple and straight to the point.I suggest anyone wanting to create an OC should read this.
Summer Daydream
Mahou Shoujo (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 06/22/08 | Reply
@:
Yeah,those wierd symbols are replacing the apostrophes,quotation marks,and stuff on my computer as well...It makes it really hard to read...
haseo luver92
Otaku Legend | Posted 06/22/08 | Reply
@:
yes, all those weird markings are showing up on mine as well, it's actually pretty distracting. v_v
haseo
haseo luver92
Otaku Legend | Posted 06/22/08 | Reply
this was an interesting article i have to say.
i myself agree with most parts of the article, but i think the "name" game should've been placed in a bit more degree. it is a bit unoriginal for everyone and their mother's name to be sakura (in a non-naruto related fanfiction), and full metal alchemist typically does not use japanese related names. i state that only because i have read some fanfictions (or fan mangas) that have japanese names for EVERYTHING! i was reading a harry potter fanfic and the person's name was japanese, and their character wasn't...very very odd.
and just a few points i wish to make in general to anyone else that wishes is trying to make an oc.
please consider your back story for your character!! please! using naruto fanfics as a basis (unfortunately, naruto fanfics are where i read all the bad ones...v_v) if your character likes sasuke, please don't make her/him an emo kid who's clan got destroyed and she has no family and she bent on revenge upon someone. i mean, reading that, she/he sounds exactly like sasuke! sasuke might as well date himself! (and as silly as it sounds, there are countless fanfics like that) also, the "new kid" in town, is getting kinda old. while in some cases it can't be helped, if you do resort to it, then make it a little more interesting then just them showing up randomly.
but i guess the biggest point i want to make is, despite what people tell you about your fanfic, write the fanfic for yourself. don't write it to please other people, the advise that Markus wolfe and others give you is not set in stone rules that u MUST follow, but help so you can make it better. but always have fun. don't forget that. not everyone is going to like your character. and your always going to have oc haters, don't let that discourage you.
so yah...great article, i really like how you showed us the creation of your character as a great reference. any newb to writing fanfics should read this. ^^
haseo
sweetdevil
Embracing Insanity (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 06/22/08 | Reply
Quite an interesting article. I enjoyed reading it in spite of a few mistakes (like the punctuation, you might want to format that since it draws attention from what you're saying).
I agree with what you stated here and I would like to add one thing: it's practically impossible to create something completely new, you have to work with something that already exists. In this case, it is important to present the character/story in a different way than you'd normally encounter in fanfics -objective is best, if you fall into the pit of subjectiveness, it's like we're reading a fanfic about you, not your character.
I hope people won't be discouraged upon seeing the number of pages, this is a very useful read for fanfiction writers and beginners alike. It would indeed help out a lot if they read this, maybe the Internet wouldn't be "polluted" with so many poor-written stories.