No doubt about it, I totally agree. I'm totally a Tsubasaologist. But, if you look carefully, there ARE a few non-sterotypical traits: (I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything, just saying.) The mage who basically refuses to use magic (until later), and the ninja who is cursed and therefore cannot kill. Kurogane also shows some unexpected... childish traits. If you look in the first world of Hanshin, at the resturant they eat okonomiyaki, he's twitching in excitement as he watches the food cook. And let's not forget he can't use a fork and knife! XD
All in all though, I totally agree with what you're saying, but I also think that CLAMP did an extraordinary job of throwing some curveballs.
Yes, I agree. I think that is part of what CLAMP is trying to express--the individuality of person because of their experiences. Putting this into a Tsubasa context, people may look alike from different dimentions but their personalities may be completely different.
Agreed. Stereotypes are just similar characteristics among a group of people and once they are seen within a big enough group enough times, they become stereotypes. They're a nice base for building characters on.
Sometimes, I think, we want to indulge in stereotypes, as they are what is most comfortable to our mental liking. Although CLAMP certainly did take Fai and Kurogane's characters and go bananas (vampire gay-man feelings? An oddly indulgent score, as it seems the Mom and Dad roles ended up being more than just Fai's teasing), at their base, all they are is a stereotype.
We're all stereotypes too, deep down. These traits about us can be neither good or bad or even neutral. All it depends on is how we put these traits to use.
I really know what you mean, and I agree with you. They do have very common 'types'. However, I think what CLAMP does with them in the story makes them so much more original and throws in something that you wouldn't see in other mangas or animes.
Like Sakura, for example. She's all bubbly, and has a big heart, but she also has insecurities, especially after the "new Syaoran" comes into play. She faces many difficulties with deciding what's the differences between the "new" and the "old" Syaoran. She doesn't know who to trust or turn to in that case.
Fai's the comic relief much of the time (along with Mokona, of course!), and he is very stoic at other times. That's a very common stereotypical type. Once again, CLAMP mixes it up with what happens to him later. He's really a deep thinker, and I think he's different than most of the manga characters I've ever seen.
Kurogane's situation is very similar to Fai's in my mind. He's stereotypical, but he really shows that he's a deeper thinker when, again, the "new Syaoran" is involved.
I do agree with you that they seem like very stereotypical characters at first, but I also think that CLAMP shatters some boundaries with what they do in the plot line. That's part of the reason that keeps me reading. Definitely one of the more thought out story lines I've ever read, and it keeps me glued to each page with every new volume. :]
I think your absolutely right. And to me, one reason that characters aren't always the same predictable characters, even thought they are very (EXTREMELY) similar sometimes is that the storyline differs and how they mature and grow during the series is different, which makes that specific character different from all the other characters with the same personality that might have grown up or mature in a different environment. It also makes certain qualities stand out more in one character than the other, also making them different. But I can definitely see where the sterotypes come in, and I think you did a great job in writing this!
`~~Miniwolf Tribe~~`
Last edited by miniwolf tribe at 1:58:35 PM EDT on August 31, 2008.
as much as i agree with u, i disagree with u even more. as a huge fan of many of clamp's works, and of many many anime series, i think clamp does a good job at "surprising" people.
for instance, let me use fai for example. yes, he's a pretty boy, yes he acts silly openly but has a dark past. i could probably name dozens of characters that are like that, BUT, that's looking at fai on the outside. reading onto the story, we find that fai isn't so sterotypical. he's actually very selfish, insecure, secretive, and most of all, afraid. now, i can't mention many characters of fai's original description that fits the latter. and while we find that sakura at the beggining is bubbly and airheaded, we also find that she becomes very dark, alone, and insecure about not only herself, but her friends as well. so many of the characters in tsubasa have a sterotypical outside to them, but clamp developes them in such a way that they are no longer sterotypical.sorry for the ramble.
I'm a huge fan of trc and i can see the angle from which you're coming from. however, i think that while the characters personality traits can be placed into categories, the reasons behind them are very original. and the way that clamp plays off of the whole clone/ alternate universe of a person and the way that people are the same and yet different from each other. the steryotypes may even be used specifically because they are steryotypes and yet clamp shows that there can be variation in the steryotypes. because like no two people the characters are all a little bit different. the way clamp creates a very indepth life and past for the characters which is the reason be hind their personality, makes them stand out as very individual. even from other characters in the same steryotype group. just like real people in general can be placed into steryotypes, the reasons behind their personality are different. the same applies to the characters in tsubasa, it is through knowing their pasts that they become more individual and stand out from other similar people. if you pass people on the street, you get the instantaneous feel for what type of person they are. alot of characters in manga and anime give you that, the instantaneous shallow impression of their character. however if you take the time to get to know them, then they grow into a more individual and distinct person with infinite depth, showing that while they may be very similar to others, in the ways that they are not similar they allow for endless variation. while the characters in tsubasa are at a glance easy to place into categories, the deviations from the norm in their character make-up make them very original.
and i'm not at all bashing you. just stating my perspective and the reasons for it.
i apologize for the length of this..... i just got so into it...
Aethelwynne
Last edited by Aethelwynne at 7:05:44 PM EDT on August 29, 2008.
redleaf, you're right. if there is ever a series without a stereotype, it's a dream. It's all about how that stereotype is used, and if they are a stereotype for a REASON. Like if they use that stereotype to leave a surprise waiting for the viewers. I've never seen Tsubasa Chronicles, but i can see where your comin from.
OmiChanLavi
Otakuite | Posted 07/16/09 | Reply
No doubt about it, I totally agree. I'm totally a Tsubasaologist. But, if you look carefully, there ARE a few non-sterotypical traits: (I'm not trying to prove you wrong or anything, just saying.) The mage who basically refuses to use magic (until later), and the ninja who is cursed and therefore cannot kill. Kurogane also shows some unexpected... childish traits. If you look in the first world of Hanshin, at the resturant they eat okonomiyaki, he's twitching in excitement as he watches the food cook. And let's not forget he can't use a fork and knife! XD
All in all though, I totally agree with what you're saying, but I also think that CLAMP did an extraordinary job of throwing some curveballs.
-Omi-chan
red:leaf
Otaku Eternal | Posted 12/23/08 | Reply
@:
Yes, I agree. I think that is part of what CLAMP is trying to express--the individuality of person because of their experiences. Putting this into a Tsubasa context, people may look alike from different dimentions but their personalities may be completely different.
red:leaf
Otaku Eternal | Posted 09/01/08 | Reply
@Nehszriah:
Agreed. Stereotypes are just similar characteristics among a group of people and once they are seen within a big enough group enough times, they become stereotypes. They're a nice base for building characters on.
red:leaf
Otaku Eternal | Posted 09/01/08 | Reply
@haseo luver92:
Don't apologize! This is the kind of reaction I want to create in people!
And I agree with you. That's what I was talking about in the "reinventing" bit. Thanks for commenting.
red:leaf
Otaku Eternal | Posted 09/01/08 | Reply
@Aethelwynne:
I'm really glad that you got so into my little article. That's what I was hoping to do so don't ever hesitate to write as much as you want!
Nehszriah
Hits Self With Axe (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 09/01/08 | Reply
Sometimes, I think, we want to indulge in stereotypes, as they are what is most comfortable to our mental liking. Although CLAMP certainly did take Fai and Kurogane's characters and go bananas (vampire gay-man feelings? An oddly indulgent score, as it seems the Mom and Dad roles ended up being more than just Fai's teasing), at their base, all they are is a stereotype.
We're all stereotypes too, deep down. These traits about us can be neither good or bad or even neutral. All it depends on is how we put these traits to use.
Be true, be you and of course, be otaku.
mewmewpudding
Otaku Eternal | Posted 08/31/08 | Reply
I really know what you mean, and I agree with you. They do have very common 'types'. However, I think what CLAMP does with them in the story makes them so much more original and throws in something that you wouldn't see in other mangas or animes.
Like Sakura, for example. She's all bubbly, and has a big heart, but she also has insecurities, especially after the "new Syaoran" comes into play. She faces many difficulties with deciding what's the differences between the "new" and the "old" Syaoran. She doesn't know who to trust or turn to in that case.
Fai's the comic relief much of the time (along with Mokona, of course!), and he is very stoic at other times. That's a very common stereotypical type. Once again, CLAMP mixes it up with what happens to him later. He's really a deep thinker, and I think he's different than most of the manga characters I've ever seen.
Kurogane's situation is very similar to Fai's in my mind. He's stereotypical, but he really shows that he's a deeper thinker when, again, the "new Syaoran" is involved.
I do agree with you that they seem like very stereotypical characters at first, but I also think that CLAMP shatters some boundaries with what they do in the plot line. That's part of the reason that keeps me reading. Definitely one of the more thought out story lines I've ever read, and it keeps me glued to each page with every new volume. :]
miniwolf tribe
Otakuite++ | Posted 08/31/08 | Reply
I think your absolutely right. And to me, one reason that characters aren't always the same predictable characters, even thought they are very (EXTREMELY) similar sometimes is that the storyline differs and how they mature and grow during the series is different, which makes that specific character different from all the other characters with the same personality that might have grown up or mature in a different environment. It also makes certain qualities stand out more in one character than the other, also making them different. But I can definitely see where the sterotypes come in, and I think you did a great job in writing this!
`~~Miniwolf Tribe~~`
Last edited by miniwolf tribe at 1:58:35 PM EDT on August 31, 2008.
haseo luver92
Otaku Legend | Posted 08/29/08 | Reply
as much as i agree with u, i disagree with u even more. as a huge fan of many of clamp's works, and of many many anime series, i think clamp does a good job at "surprising" people.
for instance, let me use fai for example. yes, he's a pretty boy, yes he acts silly openly but has a dark past. i could probably name dozens of characters that are like that, BUT, that's looking at fai on the outside. reading onto the story, we find that fai isn't so sterotypical. he's actually very selfish, insecure, secretive, and most of all, afraid. now, i can't mention many characters of fai's original description that fits the latter. and while we find that sakura at the beggining is bubbly and airheaded, we also find that she becomes very dark, alone, and insecure about not only herself, but her friends as well. so many of the characters in tsubasa have a sterotypical outside to them, but clamp developes them in such a way that they are no longer sterotypical.sorry for the ramble.
haseo
Aethelwynne
Senior Otaku | Posted 08/29/08 | Reply
I'm a huge fan of trc and i can see the angle from which you're coming from. however, i think that while the characters personality traits can be placed into categories, the reasons behind them are very original. and the way that clamp plays off of the whole clone/ alternate universe of a person and the way that people are the same and yet different from each other. the steryotypes may even be used specifically because they are steryotypes and yet clamp shows that there can be variation in the steryotypes. because like no two people the characters are all a little bit different. the way clamp creates a very indepth life and past for the characters which is the reason be hind their personality, makes them stand out as very individual. even from other characters in the same steryotype group. just like real people in general can be placed into steryotypes, the reasons behind their personality are different. the same applies to the characters in tsubasa, it is through knowing their pasts that they become more individual and stand out from other similar people. if you pass people on the street, you get the instantaneous feel for what type of person they are. alot of characters in manga and anime give you that, the instantaneous shallow impression of their character. however if you take the time to get to know them, then they grow into a more individual and distinct person with infinite depth, showing that while they may be very similar to others, in the ways that they are not similar they allow for endless variation. while the characters in tsubasa are at a glance easy to place into categories, the deviations from the norm in their character make-up make them very original.
and i'm not at all bashing you. just stating my perspective and the reasons for it.
i apologize for the length of this..... i just got so into it...
Aethelwynne
Last edited by Aethelwynne at 7:05:44 PM EDT on August 29, 2008.
artist0625
Otakuite+ | Posted 08/27/08 | Reply
redleaf, you're right. if there is ever a series without a stereotype, it's a dream. It's all about how that stereotype is used, and if they are a stereotype for a REASON. Like if they use that stereotype to leave a surprise waiting for the viewers. I've never seen Tsubasa Chronicles, but i can see where your comin from.
Artist