Well, as much as I agree with you, I disagree with you even more.
You keep naming countries like "India and Russia" but you're fail to realize that these countries have different standards at what they think is okay to air on television.
It's like comparing British televsion to American television; the British have no problem airing things like nudity, swearing, or homosexual in moderation on their shows, whereas in the US, it had better be on late at night, or not on at all. Anyone remember the show called the "Boondocks"? Controversy surrounded that show in America and was asked by many people and other televsion networks to be taken off of the air because of it's vulgarity.
If you've ever watched Shin-Chan (which I believe is a hilarious show, none the less, I am a religious watcher) I'll be the first one to tell you it's not appropiate to air on televsion, adult swim even stopped airing it after about thirty or forty episodes into it.
Plus, censorship also allows a bigger crowd; for example, as a kid, I grew up watching Toonami, and loved the show "Tenchi Muyo". I was about ten or nine when I started watching it, and without the censorship, I never would have been introduced to it, a series that I still enjoy to this day.
Also, there are plenty of other anime shows they can air that are "tame" that are still good representations of anime. Rave Master, Di Gi Charat, Hikaru No Go, Card Captors, One Piece, all of those are relativly tame.
And where you start talking about 9/11 being the cause I'll never know, because it absolutely doesn't make any sense. You mention that the Japanese have started becoming "the Japs" and other racial slurs have been used. Well, I have knews for you, I don't know anyone who has refered to the Japanese that way, in fact, I hardly hear anyone using racial slurs unless in jest with friends.
And if you want to report some actual opression of anime, start reporting about China, and how they banned Death Note fanworks along with the anime itself. Not just taking it off the air, I'm talking about a full blown ban, that's along with Taiwan.
Hey, thanks! You've covered a lot of ground, really; I didn't include the thing about DN because I didn't know about it.
One thing, though: You've mentioned religion as a cause of this censorship. Well, after 9/11, we've seen plenty of evidence concerning the growth in the memberships of certain religions. Therefore, my 9/11 argument presupposes the inclusion of a new religious particularism.
You have mentioned about the situations in Russia and India. I have noticed that you did not make any mentions about how Death Note has been banned in certain parts of China (possibly because it is old news).
As for the article in whole, you make a very valid point about how the 9/11 culture shock has effected the situation. However, there are other factors you have forgotten (such as religion)...
Now, do not get me wrong on being an ass about religion, but the extremists are usually the ones teaching about how it is sinful while they do not realise that someone made a manga version of the bible.
Also, most American audiences want the typical shounen anime instead of a deep-thinking one that tells a vivid story (Kon Satoshi's Paprika is a prime example). Now do not mind me; I personally love the grungy, dystopian anime (BLAME!, Battle Angel Alita) anime that is considered quite violent (Hellsing Fist of the North Star), but I love the over-the-top styles of FLCL, Dead Leaves, and Gurren Lagann. It is how you tell the story that can makes it good.
I end my filibuster with the famous words of Shiggy Lemons in the Book of Moe: And it was Moe.
Last edited by Tempus321 at 4:05:04 AM EST on December 21, 2008.
I only mentioned rock music once, and that was as an example. I said that rock thrived under censorship, so anime should be able to as well. I never said anything about people liking Shinchan either, I said that people were likely to be offended by it, given its subject matter. And yes, you did say that other cultures need to be tolerated, however, it was not an issue of race or culture when these anime were banned, otherwise the bans would have been more widespread (like an embargo on Japan or something, not just a few cartoons). It was an issue of content.
I'm as opposed to censorship as anybody, and I'm not saying that I agree with what Russia and India did. However, I cannot say that I'm surprised given their history, government, and culture. The main points of my first post were 1.) Censorship is not killing anime. As I said before, censorship breeds curiosity, and curiousity slowly evolves into a fanbase. If anything brings about the death of anime, it will be anime itself, and 2.) Anime is NOT "being actively singled out." I cannot stress this enough. Russia banned South Park. They banned Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm, and most of Ayn Rand's work as well. They banned nearly all Islamic literature. India has this. It's not just anime. It's anything they find offensive.
I see a certain degree of cencorship to be needed in certain shows. Some take it a little to far. You have to consider the fact that little kids watch more TV than most older teenagers. I was watching a show with my little cousin and they were saying some things that he shouldn't know about for a couple more years, along with the pervertedness of most the shows.
I think Anime is dying in a sense, instead of being something that was just created for fun and past time it is sometimes now being used just as an excuse to be vulgar or perverted. Anime shouldn't have a meaning or a purpose, but it should at least keep all audiences interested and I don't know the word for it but I would use unoffended.
OK, Dude, not to...bag on ya or anything...but, uh, the topic is: Is anime an endangered species? I am fully aware of the 'revolutionary', left-of-center development of rock music in the time of stress following the Vietnam War. This article does not speak of rock music; it's about anime. No need to be overcritical there.
Also, I have nowhere mentioned that people like Shinchan. In fact, I hate it myself. But freedom of speech and expression has assumed narrow proportions in the contemporary global scene. We assume our citizens to have the right to free speech, but deny other nations and their citizens the same rights. Also, didn't I say that it should be looked upon with tolerance, because it is another's person's viewpoint of the world?
Censorship has always been around. It's not an uncommon phenomenon for any form of entertainment or art. Books are censored. Everything from Shakespeare to Joyce to Vonnegut has been the target of banning and editing for the sake of protecting the younger generation. It's not just older books either: John Dies at the End was written just last year, and now it's banned in Australia. Music is censored too (there are enough obvious examples that I feel I don't need to go into detail). Television is censored. The FCC and Standards & Practices exist to determine what is appropriate for TV broadcast. Anime is not being singled out. Suggesting that is preposterous. It's not because of racism or (another absurd claim) 9/11, it's just that some people happen to find some things portrayed in anime offensive. Shin-chan is about a foul-mouthed 6-year-old. Nobody could EVER find that offensive AT ALL, right? I don't know much about GTO, so I can't really say anything about that one. However, Russia has an extremely long history of censorship. Most recently, I think they banned South Park. To many Americans, anime are just violent cartoons with boobs and robots. Concerned parents think violence and sex are harmful to their children. So they petition to get it off the air, or at least edited. This is also not exclusive to anime (Family Guy, South Park, Simpsons, about a billion others).
And, if a show gets taken off the air, who cares? In this day and age of high-speed internet, you could just download the fansubs (which many otaku prefer for some reason anyway) and watch them uncensored on your com. People are not becoming Puritans. They aren't becoming more racist (9/11 just awakened latent racism). They're just offended by what some anime portrays, and try to remove what offends them. That's a natural human reaction. And I don't see how censorship could spell the death of anime. Rock & roll absolutely thrived under censorship. The ban breeds curiosity, and curiousity slowly grows into a fan base. If anything, it will help.
Sorry it took so long to publish this - it was on top of the list for a long time, but I just never got a chance to chop at them for the past few days.
I won't go too far in-depth for now, but I will say that this is pretty much one of the most intelligently written essays I've had the pleasure of reading in a long, long time. Everything is formed spectacularly, and reads smoothly and clearly. It's a gutsy argument to say that the current state of anime is so closely tied to current international relations and I'm not completely sold on that idea myself, but you back it up very well (with some strong, effective language, no less). I tend to hesitate in general to anything being explained as a derivative of 9/11 - a lot is and was, definitely, but I still don't like to use it as a catch-all.
It's true, though. International civility has been dropping pretty badly lately, and I truly hope that we can fix that in the next few years - it's not an impossible hope, I'm thinking.
Funny thought crossed my mind when I read that one bit: you mentioned that an Indian man in his 40s or 50s would consider the Japanese "hardworking people". As I read that, I thought about how an Indian man from the '40s or '50s would consider them . . . heh, probably not quite as positive.
Also, I adored your use of the word "particularist". What can I say, good essay words are always worth big points.
haseo luver92
Otaku Legend | Posted 12/26/08 | Reply
Well, as much as I agree with you, I disagree with you even more.
You keep naming countries like "India and Russia" but you're fail to realize that these countries have different standards at what they think is okay to air on television.
It's like comparing British televsion to American television; the British have no problem airing things like nudity, swearing, or homosexual in moderation on their shows, whereas in the US, it had better be on late at night, or not on at all. Anyone remember the show called the "Boondocks"? Controversy surrounded that show in America and was asked by many people and other televsion networks to be taken off of the air because of it's vulgarity.
If you've ever watched Shin-Chan (which I believe is a hilarious show, none the less, I am a religious watcher) I'll be the first one to tell you it's not appropiate to air on televsion, adult swim even stopped airing it after about thirty or forty episodes into it.
Plus, censorship also allows a bigger crowd; for example, as a kid, I grew up watching Toonami, and loved the show "Tenchi Muyo". I was about ten or nine when I started watching it, and without the censorship, I never would have been introduced to it, a series that I still enjoy to this day.
Also, there are plenty of other anime shows they can air that are "tame" that are still good representations of anime. Rave Master, Di Gi Charat, Hikaru No Go, Card Captors, One Piece, all of those are relativly tame.
And where you start talking about 9/11 being the cause I'll never know, because it absolutely doesn't make any sense. You mention that the Japanese have started becoming "the Japs" and other racial slurs have been used. Well, I have knews for you, I don't know anyone who has refered to the Japanese that way, in fact, I hardly hear anyone using racial slurs unless in jest with friends.
And if you want to report some actual opression of anime, start reporting about China, and how they banned Death Note fanworks along with the anime itself. Not just taking it off the air, I'm talking about a full blown ban, that's along with Taiwan.
haseo
japan.freak
Grand Otaku | Posted 12/21/08 | Reply
@Tempus321:
Hey, thanks! You've covered a lot of ground, really; I didn't include the thing about DN because I didn't know about it.
One thing, though: You've mentioned religion as a cause of this censorship. Well, after 9/11, we've seen plenty of evidence concerning the growth in the memberships of certain religions. Therefore, my 9/11 argument presupposes the inclusion of a new religious particularism.
Tempus321
Senior Otaku | Posted 12/21/08 | Reply
You have mentioned about the situations in Russia and India. I have noticed that you did not make any mentions about how Death Note has been banned in certain parts of China (possibly because it is old news).
As for the article in whole, you make a very valid point about how the 9/11 culture shock has effected the situation. However, there are other factors you have forgotten (such as religion)...
Now, do not get me wrong on being an ass about religion, but the extremists are usually the ones teaching about how it is sinful while they do not realise that someone made a manga version of the bible.
Also, most American audiences want the typical shounen anime instead of a deep-thinking one that tells a vivid story (Kon Satoshi's Paprika is a prime example). Now do not mind me; I personally love the grungy, dystopian anime (BLAME!, Battle Angel Alita) anime that is considered quite violent (Hellsing Fist of the North Star), but I love the over-the-top styles of FLCL, Dead Leaves, and Gurren Lagann. It is how you tell the story that can makes it good.
I end my filibuster with the famous words of Shiggy Lemons in the Book of Moe: And it was Moe.
Last edited by Tempus321 at 4:05:04 AM EST on December 21, 2008.
jRockstar11385
Senior Otaku+ | Posted 12/20/08 | Reply
I wish I could write like this
Faroe
Senior Otaku | Posted 12/20/08 | Reply
Well, I sort of see this happening too. The myotaku died so long ago.
but hopefully like everything else, things always come back in style.
Cezieni
Otakuite++ | Posted 12/19/08 | Reply
@japan.freak:
I only mentioned rock music once, and that was as an example. I said that rock thrived under censorship, so anime should be able to as well. I never said anything about people liking Shinchan either, I said that people were likely to be offended by it, given its subject matter. And yes, you did say that other cultures need to be tolerated, however, it was not an issue of race or culture when these anime were banned, otherwise the bans would have been more widespread (like an embargo on Japan or something, not just a few cartoons). It was an issue of content.
I'm as opposed to censorship as anybody, and I'm not saying that I agree with what Russia and India did. However, I cannot say that I'm surprised given their history, government, and culture. The main points of my first post were 1.) Censorship is not killing anime. As I said before, censorship breeds curiosity, and curiousity slowly evolves into a fanbase. If anything brings about the death of anime, it will be anime itself, and 2.) Anime is NOT "being actively singled out." I cannot stress this enough. Russia banned South Park. They banned Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm, and most of Ayn Rand's work as well. They banned nearly all Islamic literature. India has this. It's not just anime. It's anything they find offensive.
SystemMalfunction
Otakuite++ | Posted 12/19/08 | Reply
I see a certain degree of cencorship to be needed in certain shows. Some take it a little to far. You have to consider the fact that little kids watch more TV than most older teenagers. I was watching a show with my little cousin and they were saying some things that he shouldn't know about for a couple more years, along with the pervertedness of most the shows.
I think Anime is dying in a sense, instead of being something that was just created for fun and past time it is sometimes now being used just as an excuse to be vulgar or perverted. Anime shouldn't have a meaning or a purpose, but it should at least keep all audiences interested and I don't know the word for it but I would use unoffended.
japan.freak
Grand Otaku | Posted 12/18/08 | Reply
@Cezieni:
OK, Dude, not to...bag on ya or anything...but, uh, the topic is: Is anime an endangered species? I am fully aware of the 'revolutionary', left-of-center development of rock music in the time of stress following the Vietnam War. This article does not speak of rock music; it's about anime. No need to be overcritical there.
Also, I have nowhere mentioned that people like Shinchan. In fact, I hate it myself. But freedom of speech and expression has assumed narrow proportions in the contemporary global scene. We assume our citizens to have the right to free speech, but deny other nations and their citizens the same rights. Also, didn't I say that it should be looked upon with tolerance, because it is another's person's viewpoint of the world?
Cezieni
Otakuite++ | Posted 12/18/08 | Reply
Censorship has always been around. It's not an uncommon phenomenon for any form of entertainment or art. Books are censored. Everything from Shakespeare to Joyce to Vonnegut has been the target of banning and editing for the sake of protecting the younger generation. It's not just older books either: John Dies at the End was written just last year, and now it's banned in Australia. Music is censored too (there are enough obvious examples that I feel I don't need to go into detail). Television is censored. The FCC and Standards & Practices exist to determine what is appropriate for TV broadcast. Anime is not being singled out. Suggesting that is preposterous. It's not because of racism or (another absurd claim) 9/11, it's just that some people happen to find some things portrayed in anime offensive. Shin-chan is about a foul-mouthed 6-year-old. Nobody could EVER find that offensive AT ALL, right? I don't know much about GTO, so I can't really say anything about that one. However, Russia has an extremely long history of censorship. Most recently, I think they banned South Park. To many Americans, anime are just violent cartoons with boobs and robots. Concerned parents think violence and sex are harmful to their children. So they petition to get it off the air, or at least edited. This is also not exclusive to anime (Family Guy, South Park, Simpsons, about a billion others).
And, if a show gets taken off the air, who cares? In this day and age of high-speed internet, you could just download the fansubs (which many otaku prefer for some reason anyway) and watch them uncensored on your com. People are not becoming Puritans. They aren't becoming more racist (9/11 just awakened latent racism). They're just offended by what some anime portrays, and try to remove what offends them. That's a natural human reaction. And I don't see how censorship could spell the death of anime. Rock & roll absolutely thrived under censorship. The ban breeds curiosity, and curiousity slowly grows into a fan base. If anything, it will help.
SomeGuy
Canadian Liaison (Team) | Posted 12/18/08 | Reply
Sorry it took so long to publish this - it was on top of the list for a long time, but I just never got a chance to chop at them for the past few days.
I won't go too far in-depth for now, but I will say that this is pretty much one of the most intelligently written essays I've had the pleasure of reading in a long, long time. Everything is formed spectacularly, and reads smoothly and clearly. It's a gutsy argument to say that the current state of anime is so closely tied to current international relations and I'm not completely sold on that idea myself, but you back it up very well (with some strong, effective language, no less). I tend to hesitate in general to anything being explained as a derivative of 9/11 - a lot is and was, definitely, but I still don't like to use it as a catch-all.
It's true, though. International civility has been dropping pretty badly lately, and I truly hope that we can fix that in the next few years - it's not an impossible hope, I'm thinking.
Funny thought crossed my mind when I read that one bit: you mentioned that an Indian man in his 40s or 50s would consider the Japanese "hardworking people". As I read that, I thought about how an Indian man from the '40s or '50s would consider them . . . heh, probably not quite as positive.
Also, I adored your use of the word "particularist". What can I say, good essay words are always worth big points.
Excellent work!