Well this is a background, and they both look the same and they both say that they both made it. Just one made it before the other. Are you the wallpaper mod?
You know that someone truly cares when they brick you like that. -AZ
I see it happen a lot with a partcular image that someone made a wallpaper with. They vectored the main character, cleaned it and such to put it in their wallpaper. A lot of people have cut-out the character and replaced the background. I'm not sure how that would be seen, a vector can still be classed as someones work so it could still be theft. I suppose it depends on whether the person making the wallpaper realises they are stealing someones carefully cropped and vectored work. If not they should be informed it isn't just any old image and that credit might be nice.
I have a question,
What if person A makes a wallpaper and submits it and she made everything on there. Then person B takes out the main image and just takes the background and pastes some image in there and claims that she made the background and did everything. Would that be worth reporting, and if so then What would be done about it?
You know that someone truly cares when they brick you like that. -AZ
Duely noted, and I apologize if my work has confused people. 'Theft' is indeed perhaps too strong a word, but it is one people understand more than say 'plagersim'. It has to be said, that if a written work resembles that of another, people scream 'thief' from the rooftops. Of course fanart refferencing isn't on the same legal money making level.
Thank-you for your feedback, it helps me when writing other aticles.
I have to say that I do agree with the basic premise. Namely, that blatant theft (whatever that amounts to) is wrong (and that term itself is question begging). I'm concerned with how things tend to blur into one another, making the lines not so clear and distinct. As a result, we cannot make an accurate judgment on the matter.
The language seems to be appropriately strong and forceful, but repeated terms like "theft" and "stolen" are not sufficiently qualified or explicated. When this happens, we're left on our own to fill the blanks, as it were, resulting in the mixed comments that we see here. I'm also trying to figure out how the concept of theft and the concept of copying are conflated. I find that it's somewhat misleading to pair the terms as if they signify the same thing. Furthermore, it then seemingly slips into accepting that it's a form of semi-art, thus accepting that it's semi-theft. -- i.e. not quite theft. Now the issue is that much cloudier, when it should have been clearer.
I honestly do apologize if I sound like I'm only concerned with being "right". That is not my intention; rather, my intention is to find and hopefully clarify some of the implicit ideas in this article so we can figure out how to properly manage and, hopefully, solve the problem in question.
guys guys, for those of u that commented eariler, i don't think she was trying to bash referencing or trying to discourage beginning artists. what she's trying to say is credit the artist and don't try and make it look as if u were the only part in that picture. i can say as someone who's had their artwork stolen (i drew a shikamaru picture and i found out later that my friend said she had found it on another site and someone else was claiming it as theirs) that it's not cool to have ur artwork stolen. that's all she's trying to say.
but, if u are trying to make drawing into a career, then copying would be a bad thing, and u need to try and stop that habit soon. that's all i have to say.
Thank-you all for the feedback recieved. Kuroi Hihane is right, I am not putting down refferencing at all, I am putting down those who use a style that is not their own and never credit who inspired them in the first place. I think it is only fair to credit the original artist, if only as thanks for helping you develop your own work
I don't usually look at this issue from the stealing part of it. I simply view it as being unoriginal. Obviously, if the artist has no poses, characters, or background in thier heads and have to copy poses and things like that from other people, then they don't have much worth as an artist anyway.
However, for an artist that is just beginning, I can see where doing that would be useful. Speaking as someone who was at one time an "infant" artist copying other peoples poses and proportions was so helpful to my knowledge of how to draw people. It served as a wonderfull foundation block. However, there comes a point when one has to break off from copying and develop thier own style.
So for people who are way beyond the beginning level and still copying, that is not only wrong, it's boring.
Well what I have to say is, that it is awesome that someone is finally bringing to light line tracing. But, saying that, copying a pose, is least likely plagiarism. All poses have been done before, unless you're drawing some really inventive hentai...
Statements that bring into question the concept of "originality" are difficult to manage. At what point is a piece of artwork theft? If a 14 year old girl who is learning the style for the first time, and happens to see a pose that she likes -- thus uses it -- but does not credit the originator, I would be extremely hesitant to burden her with the highly charged and stigmatizing labels "thief" or "plagiarist". Who draws the line between an honest homage, and outright theft?
Discerning between someone who is learning the style and someone who clearly knows many styles is not only subjective to a certain degree, but the judgment itself depends on the skill and knowledge of the artist who questions another's art. If a person's skill is greater than another's, the burden of judgment requires a high degree of personal responsibility. One has to seriously ask oneself: "Is this outright theft, or is this someone who is using fanart as a sort of stepping-stone to higher levels of skill?" My point is that one needs to handle cases like these with utmost care, before unwittingly shaming a budding artist into inactivity.
Raid Boss (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/30/08 | Reply
THANK YOU. I've always been bothered by the huge amount of fanart I've seen that's just copied off of official artwork or other people's. It's one thing to copy for reference, like to learn how to draw Ichigo's face, or do a certain pose, but don't post it as official work. When I use reference pics, I usually use about 4-5 so I can create something truly original. Like, I like the style this person drew profile in, but I like the way this other person did the hair, I'll try and combine the two. I'm sick of seeing the same 20 pieces of artwork all of the same pose that someone pulled out of a manga centerfold and copied (or traced over).
Excuse my ranting, it's 4 AM here.
I liked your article, and I'm glad you could bring this to the general Otaku.com populace's attention. Hug for you.
I have to disagree with you. Referencing a pose is something I have done and I believe it's rather obvious as well.
However referencing said poses has helped me greatly in being able to create my own poses, now I rarely ever reference a pose unless I find the pose I'm thinking of to be rather difficult whereas I search for a similar pose to figure it out a bit.
And I'll admit again I did not and still don't credit the original artist. Why?
Because then people get defensive and all saying, as you are, that it's 'stealing.'
However if you can't seem to accept the fact that other artists' works will be copied/referenced and the basic idea of the picture will be taken (Heck even professional artists do it!) then you cannot call yourself an artist.
More or less referencing or copying will help a young artist develop their own skills, so please don't say report all pictures that have been created using a reference or copied (And by copied I mean the picture is simply redawn by the artist, not traced. I am against tracing.) as that's rather cruel. And some young artists can only improve by doing this, I myself am an example.
I take this very personally as I'm sure you can tell and am somewhat offended.
But one must not always reference and copy pictures because then one will end up not improving at all.
On another note:
If anyone goes to my portfolio and comments on my art saying I'm stealing, I will hunt them down to the ends of the Earth and bite their heads off. :) So don't do it 'kay?
My stance towards such an occurrence when reported, especially when it matches rather closely, is to remove it and explain that one can re-submit it so long as they give proper credit to the original artist.
However as you can see here: Adam We are still waiting for the reporting system to go live. >_> I imagine I'm going to be really, really busy when that happens.
Anyway, good to see that you have this up and running. ^_^
Calaya
Team | Posted 07/26/08 | Reply
@Hiko:
No I was hired as the cosplay mod a while ago, so I still Mod here and there while cosplay is asleep. I can take a look still.
Hiko
Otaku Eternal | Posted 07/22/08 | Reply
@Calaya:
Well this is a background, and they both look the same and they both say that they both made it. Just one made it before the other. Are you the wallpaper mod?
You know that someone truly cares when they brick you like that. -AZ
Calaya
Team | Posted 07/22/08 | Reply
@Hiko:
I see it happen a lot with a partcular image that someone made a wallpaper with. They vectored the main character, cleaned it and such to put it in their wallpaper. A lot of people have cut-out the character and replaced the background. I'm not sure how that would be seen, a vector can still be classed as someones work so it could still be theft. I suppose it depends on whether the person making the wallpaper realises they are stealing someones carefully cropped and vectored work. If not they should be informed it isn't just any old image and that credit might be nice.
Hiko
Otaku Eternal | Posted 07/20/08 | Reply
I have a question,
What if person A makes a wallpaper and submits it and she made everything on there. Then person B takes out the main image and just takes the background and pastes some image in there and claims that she made the background and did everything. Would that be worth reporting, and if so then What would be done about it?
You know that someone truly cares when they brick you like that. -AZ
Calaya
Team | Posted 04/02/08 | Reply
@Pleiades Rising:
Duely noted, and I apologize if my work has confused people. 'Theft' is indeed perhaps too strong a word, but it is one people understand more than say 'plagersim'. It has to be said, that if a written work resembles that of another, people scream 'thief' from the rooftops. Of course fanart refferencing isn't on the same legal money making level.
Thank-you for your feedback, it helps me when writing other aticles.
SomeGuy
Canadian Liaison (Team) | Posted 04/01/08 | Reply
Confessions of a moderator . . . ahh, good times. Nice work, Calay'.
Pleiades Rising
Otaku Idol (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 04/01/08 | Reply
I have to say that I do agree with the basic premise. Namely, that blatant theft (whatever that amounts to) is wrong (and that term itself is question begging). I'm concerned with how things tend to blur into one another, making the lines not so clear and distinct. As a result, we cannot make an accurate judgment on the matter.
The language seems to be appropriately strong and forceful, but repeated terms like "theft" and "stolen" are not sufficiently qualified or explicated. When this happens, we're left on our own to fill the blanks, as it were, resulting in the mixed comments that we see here. I'm also trying to figure out how the concept of theft and the concept of copying are conflated. I find that it's somewhat misleading to pair the terms as if they signify the same thing. Furthermore, it then seemingly slips into accepting that it's a form of semi-art, thus accepting that it's semi-theft. -- i.e. not quite theft. Now the issue is that much cloudier, when it should have been clearer.
I honestly do apologize if I sound like I'm only concerned with being "right". That is not my intention; rather, my intention is to find and hopefully clarify some of the implicit ideas in this article so we can figure out how to properly manage and, hopefully, solve the problem in question.
haseo luver92
Otaku Legend | Posted 03/31/08 | Reply
guys guys, for those of u that commented eariler, i don't think she was trying to bash referencing or trying to discourage beginning artists. what she's trying to say is credit the artist and don't try and make it look as if u were the only part in that picture. i can say as someone who's had their artwork stolen (i drew a shikamaru picture and i found out later that my friend said she had found it on another site and someone else was claiming it as theirs) that it's not cool to have ur artwork stolen. that's all she's trying to say.
but, if u are trying to make drawing into a career, then copying would be a bad thing, and u need to try and stop that habit soon. that's all i have to say.
haseo
Calaya
Team | Posted 03/31/08 | Reply
Thank-you all for the feedback recieved. Kuroi Hihane is right, I am not putting down refferencing at all, I am putting down those who use a style that is not their own and never credit who inspired them in the first place. I think it is only fair to credit the original artist, if only as thanks for helping you develop your own work
theblackERspot
Otaku Eternal | Posted 03/31/08 | Reply
I don't usually look at this issue from the stealing part of it. I simply view it as being unoriginal. Obviously, if the artist has no poses, characters, or background in thier heads and have to copy poses and things like that from other people, then they don't have much worth as an artist anyway.
However, for an artist that is just beginning, I can see where doing that would be useful. Speaking as someone who was at one time an "infant" artist copying other peoples poses and proportions was so helpful to my knowledge of how to draw people. It served as a wonderfull foundation block. However, there comes a point when one has to break off from copying and develop thier own style.
So for people who are way beyond the beginning level and still copying, that is not only wrong, it's boring.
Purgatory
Otaku Legend | Posted 03/30/08 | Reply
Well what I have to say is, that it is awesome that someone is finally bringing to light line tracing. But, saying that, copying a pose, is least likely plagiarism. All poses have been done before, unless you're drawing some really inventive hentai...
cosmo2389
Otaku Legend | Posted 03/30/08 | Reply
True!! Good job!! If it's copied in any form I think that it is theft unless they credit the original work, simple as that!!
~cosmo2389
Pleiades Rising
Otaku Idol (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/30/08 | Reply
Statements that bring into question the concept of "originality" are difficult to manage. At what point is a piece of artwork theft? If a 14 year old girl who is learning the style for the first time, and happens to see a pose that she likes -- thus uses it -- but does not credit the originator, I would be extremely hesitant to burden her with the highly charged and stigmatizing labels "thief" or "plagiarist". Who draws the line between an honest homage, and outright theft?
Discerning between someone who is learning the style and someone who clearly knows many styles is not only subjective to a certain degree, but the judgment itself depends on the skill and knowledge of the artist who questions another's art. If a person's skill is greater than another's, the burden of judgment requires a high degree of personal responsibility. One has to seriously ask oneself: "Is this outright theft, or is this someone who is using fanart as a sort of stepping-stone to higher levels of skill?" My point is that one needs to handle cases like these with utmost care, before unwittingly shaming a budding artist into inactivity.
red tigress
Raid Boss (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/30/08 | Reply
THANK YOU. I've always been bothered by the huge amount of fanart I've seen that's just copied off of official artwork or other people's. It's one thing to copy for reference, like to learn how to draw Ichigo's face, or do a certain pose, but don't post it as official work. When I use reference pics, I usually use about 4-5 so I can create something truly original. Like, I like the style this person drew profile in, but I like the way this other person did the hair, I'll try and combine the two. I'm sick of seeing the same 20 pieces of artwork all of the same pose that someone pulled out of a manga centerfold and copied (or traced over).
Excuse my ranting, it's 4 AM here.
I liked your article, and I'm glad you could bring this to the general Otaku.com populace's attention. Hug for you.
Kirobug
SuperBum (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/29/08 | Reply
I have to disagree with you. Referencing a pose is something I have done and I believe it's rather obvious as well.
However referencing said poses has helped me greatly in being able to create my own poses, now I rarely ever reference a pose unless I find the pose I'm thinking of to be rather difficult whereas I search for a similar pose to figure it out a bit.
And I'll admit again I did not and still don't credit the original artist. Why?
Because then people get defensive and all saying, as you are, that it's 'stealing.'
However if you can't seem to accept the fact that other artists' works will be copied/referenced and the basic idea of the picture will be taken (Heck even professional artists do it!) then you cannot call yourself an artist.
More or less referencing or copying will help a young artist develop their own skills, so please don't say report all pictures that have been created using a reference or copied (And by copied I mean the picture is simply redawn by the artist, not traced. I am against tracing.) as that's rather cruel. And some young artists can only improve by doing this, I myself am an example.
I take this very personally as I'm sure you can tell and am somewhat offended.
But one must not always reference and copy pictures because then one will end up not improving at all.
On another note:
If anyone goes to my portfolio and comments on my art saying I'm stealing, I will hunt them down to the ends of the Earth and bite their heads off. :) So don't do it 'kay?
SunfallE
Nyaa~ (ZE MEANIE) | Posted 03/27/08 | Reply
My stance towards such an occurrence when reported, especially when it matches rather closely, is to remove it and explain that one can re-submit it so long as they give proper credit to the original artist.
However as you can see here: Adam We are still waiting for the reporting system to go live. >_> I imagine I'm going to be really, really busy when that happens.
Anyway, good to see that you have this up and running. ^_^
In the name of the tune I will punish you!