Sorry if I gave the impression that we're writing similar articles. I was just wondering how much I might be influenced by your article if I had read it before I finish mine, which is unrelated. So far, mine is incoherent, contradictory, and inconsistent -- not a good mix. In other words, it dances like a fan at a Dead Kennedys concert (the early years).
I would like to see a dash style in some articles, but not at the cost of restricting a concept. Too much dancing, and we still end up with the same thing, except that it's disguised in a pretty costume. With my article, I'm trying to find a nice mixture. I do wonder how far my grammatical constructions will alter the overall article.
That's probably fair. But in any case, it's I'm not proposing a bulleted list of quality requirements. This is mainly just me whining and trying to figure out why my expectations were off - and whining, while it's probably annoying, isn't really "restricting to the memberbase as a whole."
Sorry, my mistake, I should have clarified that if we moved into expecting that, it would be restricting. :p Nothing wrong with hoping for it.
Has the age of the average theO member moved down that far? Did all the old writers just pack up and move away already? Or are we just going through growing pains right now, with the best still to come?
Good question, as to the age and whether or not the good writers have simply moved on. I can speak for one who use to post articles... I know for a fact that with college and work, he no longer visits the site at all. Which is a shame since he was one of the better writers in my opinion.
I sincerely hope it's just growing pains. I'd love to see better articles and material going up on the site. Right now, other than a few people, I haven't cared for most of what has gone up.
Pickle of the Year (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/31/08 | Reply
Concerning Fan Words, I think it has a lot to do with the way the current system is set up. On the surface, it isn't drastically different from the old articles section. But there's something very convenient about the whole "published world posts" thing. It seems so easy for people to just whip up a post, then click the little check box at the bottom. And despite the heavy moderation, it still lends Fan Words a certain accessibility that articles never quite had.
I didn't know you were writing a similar sort of article. May the faster author win!
(hint: I am not a very fast author)
As for making words dance, I'm not sure - it's never really been my concern. I try to make the words follow the things, to make them show the things in as clear a way as possible. So it's fairly secondary, from my point of view, whether the words end up two-stepping or b-boying. In almost all of my serious attempts at philosophical work (the Kasimasi article is a good example), I've ended up having to string the words up on the rack. I'm not really sure how to avoid this, or if it can be avoided at all. Heidegger once wrote something on the problem, which I take to heart. He said:
"This clumsiness in formulation and definition lies in the theme and in the very nature of the investigation. For to give a narrative account of an entity is one thing, and to comprehend that entity in its being is another. For the latter task, often not only the words are lacking but the very grammar as well.... [So] if we are forced here to introduce ponderous and perhaps inelegant expressions, it is not a matter of personal whim or a special fancy for my own terminology, but the compulsion of the phenomena themselves.... If such formulations come up often, no offense should be taken. There is no such thing as the beautiful in the sciences, least of all perhaps in philosophy."
That's probably fair. But in any case, it's I'm not proposing a bulleted list of quality requirements. This is mainly just me whining and trying to figure out why my expectations were off - and whining, while it's probably annoying, isn't really "restricting to the memberbase as a whole."
And again, it's not like I was expecting Fan Words to measure up to the New Yorker (which would really be unrealistic, far more than whatever unrealism I'm currently sporting). The level of quality I was hoping for was, well, [URL=http://web.archive.org/web/20060819230109/http://articles.theotaku.com/]something like this - and so far I think it comes in a step below. So I have to wonder: what's changed? Has the age of the average theO member moved down that far? Did all the old writers just pack up and move away already? Or are we just going through growing pains right now, with the best still to come?
I must have that mashup. I'll grab it after my usual visits and stuff.
(Man, I sound like I'm picking up parcels.)
I had my eye on Claymore for a while back then, and I also liked your Kasimasi article (it may have been my favorite article on the site). Naturally, I'll be compelled to read it when you finish it. Hopefully, I'll refrain, this time, from commenting in an embarrassingly psychological way. As for the second article, if it's finished before I finish mine, I'd like to read it and see if it then influences what I may write. I'll see how it all goes. Either way, I've been waiting for some more difficult works to appear.
I think that it may be too early to see some improvement in the section. I don't expect any sort of continuation from the previous set of articles. The Words section, rather, needs an article of a very different scope to make everyone realize that the Words submissions can be something other than what it is. It does not necessarily mean that someone has to write a piece which resembles a sociology textbook, but that there ought to be a piece which makes its words, for lack of a better concept, dance. Clean grammar is nice and all, but it makes for a very boring 2-step.
Dr. Mama Cat. (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/31/08 | Reply
To be honest, considering the wide diversity or rather wide range of ages... I'd have to wonder if your expectations are a little to high. I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from with this, since for some, it is worth putting a lot more effort into it. Where for others, it's something done for fun. Puts a different spin on what's submitted when seen in that light.
And the way I see it, so long as the members are enjoying it and it is at least moderated to filter out stuff that really shouldn't be up there... Expecting a higher level of standards is unrealistic and restricting to the memberbase as a whole.
Pleiades Rising
Otaku Idol (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 04/01/08 | Reply
@Fasteriskhead:
Sorry if I gave the impression that we're writing similar articles. I was just wondering how much I might be influenced by your article if I had read it before I finish mine, which is unrelated. So far, mine is incoherent, contradictory, and inconsistent -- not a good mix. In other words, it dances like a fan at a Dead Kennedys concert (the early years).
I would like to see a dash style in some articles, but not at the cost of restricting a concept. Too much dancing, and we still end up with the same thing, except that it's disguised in a pretty costume. With my article, I'm trying to find a nice mixture. I do wonder how far my grammatical constructions will alter the overall article.
Indi
Dr. Mama Cat. (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/31/08 | Reply
@Fasteriskhead:
That's probably fair. But in any case, it's I'm not proposing a bulleted list of quality requirements. This is mainly just me whining and trying to figure out why my expectations were off - and whining, while it's probably annoying, isn't really "restricting to the memberbase as a whole."
Sorry, my mistake, I should have clarified that if we moved into expecting that, it would be restricting. :p Nothing wrong with hoping for it.
Has the age of the average theO member moved down that far? Did all the old writers just pack up and move away already? Or are we just going through growing pains right now, with the best still to come?
Good question, as to the age and whether or not the good writers have simply moved on. I can speak for one who use to post articles... I know for a fact that with college and work, he no longer visits the site at all. Which is a shame since he was one of the better writers in my opinion.
I sincerely hope it's just growing pains. I'd love to see better articles and material going up on the site. Right now, other than a few people, I haven't cared for most of what has gone up.
~Crystia
bellpickle
Pickle of the Year (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/31/08 | Reply
Concerning Fan Words, I think it has a lot to do with the way the current system is set up. On the surface, it isn't drastically different from the old articles section. But there's something very convenient about the whole "published world posts" thing. It seems so easy for people to just whip up a post, then click the little check box at the bottom. And despite the heavy moderation, it still lends Fan Words a certain accessibility that articles never quite had.
Fasteriskhead
Otakuite++ | Posted 03/31/08 | Reply
@Pleiades Rising:
I didn't know you were writing a similar sort of article. May the faster author win!
(hint: I am not a very fast author)
As for making words dance, I'm not sure - it's never really been my concern. I try to make the words follow the things, to make them show the things in as clear a way as possible. So it's fairly secondary, from my point of view, whether the words end up two-stepping or b-boying. In almost all of my serious attempts at philosophical work (the Kasimasi article is a good example), I've ended up having to string the words up on the rack. I'm not really sure how to avoid this, or if it can be avoided at all. Heidegger once wrote something on the problem, which I take to heart. He said:
"This clumsiness in formulation and definition lies in the theme and in the very nature of the investigation. For to give a narrative account of an entity is one thing, and to comprehend that entity in its being is another. For the latter task, often not only the words are lacking but the very grammar as well.... [So] if we are forced here to introduce ponderous and perhaps inelegant expressions, it is not a matter of personal whim or a special fancy for my own terminology, but the compulsion of the phenomena themselves.... If such formulations come up often, no offense should be taken. There is no such thing as the beautiful in the sciences, least of all perhaps in philosophy."
Fasteriskhead
Otakuite++ | Posted 03/31/08 | Reply
@Indi:
That's probably fair. But in any case, it's I'm not proposing a bulleted list of quality requirements. This is mainly just me whining and trying to figure out why my expectations were off - and whining, while it's probably annoying, isn't really "restricting to the memberbase as a whole."
And again, it's not like I was expecting Fan Words to measure up to the New Yorker (which would really be unrealistic, far more than whatever unrealism I'm currently sporting). The level of quality I was hoping for was, well, [URL=http://web.archive.org/web/20060819230109/http://articles.theotaku.com/]something like this - and so far I think it comes in a step below. So I have to wonder: what's changed? Has the age of the average theO member moved down that far? Did all the old writers just pack up and move away already? Or are we just going through growing pains right now, with the best still to come?
Pleiades Rising
Otaku Idol (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/31/08 | Reply
I must have that mashup. I'll grab it after my usual visits and stuff.
(Man, I sound like I'm picking up parcels.)
I had my eye on Claymore for a while back then, and I also liked your Kasimasi article (it may have been my favorite article on the site). Naturally, I'll be compelled to read it when you finish it. Hopefully, I'll refrain, this time, from commenting in an embarrassingly psychological way. As for the second article, if it's finished before I finish mine, I'd like to read it and see if it then influences what I may write. I'll see how it all goes. Either way, I've been waiting for some more difficult works to appear.
I think that it may be too early to see some improvement in the section. I don't expect any sort of continuation from the previous set of articles. The Words section, rather, needs an article of a very different scope to make everyone realize that the Words submissions can be something other than what it is. It does not necessarily mean that someone has to write a piece which resembles a sociology textbook, but that there ought to be a piece which makes its words, for lack of a better concept, dance. Clean grammar is nice and all, but it makes for a very boring 2-step.
Indi
Dr. Mama Cat. (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/31/08 | Reply
To be honest, considering the wide diversity or rather wide range of ages... I'd have to wonder if your expectations are a little to high. I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from with this, since for some, it is worth putting a lot more effort into it. Where for others, it's something done for fun. Puts a different spin on what's submitted when seen in that light.
And the way I see it, so long as the members are enjoying it and it is at least moderated to filter out stuff that really shouldn't be up there... Expecting a higher level of standards is unrealistic and restricting to the memberbase as a whole.
~Crystia