*claps massivly* wow, i think u've summed up how alot of us feel in words that would've taken me about ten more pages to read (and a lot less ppl that would've read it). this is all very true. and it almost ties in with my "support dub" or at least "support the industry". because now days u can buy the dvd with the original japanese track on it and u don't have to listen to the dub, which helps the industry rather than u just watching the fansubs online. now, i'll admit, i do watch a few fansubs (like ouran) BUT as soon as they have been released in the US, i have made a point to buy all of them. or, with the comic books, buy everyone that i have read ahead of time online. i think i've stuck pretty close to this, and i hope many others do the same thing. because if we keep ripping the companies off, they're not going to release them in the US anymore because it won't be efficient. and i don't know about u guys, but i show my anime/manga collection with pride when ppl come over to my house. ;)
I realize the aside, actually. Think of my comment less as objecting and more as seconding the motion, because I felt that what I highlighted could very well add to your focus on the industrial/commercial aspect if followed to its logical end.
Your major point was that we as the fan base owe the company nothing in the way of allegiance(s), and that the company likewise owes us nothing, correct? I believe that a showcasing of distribution companies' unquestionable capacity to provide better service than they do at present, alongside the obvious advantages the action would generate, would drive home the latter point quite forcefully and emphasize the former simultaneously; for why should we feel any sense of obligation to an entity who does not hold us in the same regard?
The argument does lean heavily to the use of rhetoric, but I do not believe it out of place here. And I had better stop now because it seems my contractions are disappearing, which means I'm getting too serious again. =P
I agree that the big problem in the kind of model I briefly mention here is distributers' power and willingness to buy the shows' rights - in brief, I think much of the problem can be traced back to an extreme rigidity in the kinds of deals that get worked out. So far as I can tell, most licensing works like this: an American distributer, A, wants to license a show from Japanese production company X for series N, so that A has the rights to distribute N in the U.S. for a number of years. A has to buy the entire series (say, 25 episodes) - it has to pay X a large lump sum of money and perhaps also a cut of the series' gross sales. A then prepares its release (adding their dub, printing the DVDs, etc., all of which costs more money), puts N on the shelves or hands it to Adult Swim, and prays that it's popular enough to make back their investment. This kind of deal encourages A not to take risks on relatively obscure shows: if N ends up a dud, A has to take a massive financial hit.
It seems to me that one could find far more flexible and less risky ways of licensing shows for domestic distribution. Imagine that instead of only writing contracts where A buys the rights to particular shows (let's call these N, O, and P) from X, A and X also agree on a kind of standing contract for online distribution with an fee schedule. Let's say the schedule works like this: whenever A wishes, A can buy the rights to individual episodes to translate and offer only as no-frills downloads via a program or service. In return X gets a fee and a percentage of the gross for that episode's online sales, and promises A the first chance to buy the rights for the entire series if it wishes. The period for these limited distribution rights can even be kept at a shorter period (say, a year) with options to renew, so as not to tie up the license. This way, A can buy the series rights to N whole-hog if it thinks it's a sure winner, but it can also take a chance on the more obscure O and P as well (licensing the online distribution of, say, the first three episodes) if there's been some buzz about them and A has a good feeling. If O or P do badly, A simply stops there and only takes a very modest hit; X, in turn, can resell the series to anyone interested when the limited rights expire. If O or P do well, though, A can license the entire series from X, continue to release its episodes online, and make a few extra bucks from DVD sales a few months later.
Anyways, tl;dr. It seems to me that everyone wins out with such an arrangement: Japanese production companies make money on comparatively risky series that may have otherwise never seen the light of day stateside; American production companies, relieved of much of the risk associated with unknown shows, gain much more freedom in terms of where they can invest; fans and consumers gain access to a wider range of programming and a much more convenient way to try it all than waiting for the DVDs or chasing down torrent files. This is the best idea for solving the rights hurdle that I can personally think of, but I'm obviously open to other suggestions.
Alla: the objection to that point being buried is well-taken, but trying to sell that particular way out wasn't really the point of this essay. What I really wanted to do here was to make a larger point about how the industry and the fandom relate, and to do that while at the same time shifting the debate about fan translations away from the legal/ethical doldrums where it's dwelled (rather uselessly) for the last couple of years. The line you refer to was really just an aside: as I said, I think every intelligent person in the industry already knows what needs to happen if they're going to be viable (beyond the Best Buy crowd, at least) in the coming years.
Vagrant AI (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 09/10/08 | Reply
I think what I liked best about your essay is how you point out at the end that distribution companies have many more advantages than fansubbers, and the only thing keeping them back is the licensing process.
It would be truly great if licensing a show could be done so quickly that a company could legally release subs days after the episode aired. However, that's just it. An ideal business isn't going to license a product unless they think it can sell. Obviously, there's lots of "crap" shows that have been licensed and are currently distributed here in America. But it still stands that it's hard for companies to decide what to license when the show has barely just begun and no one is quite sure of its success just yet. There are other snags in the process as well, but this is just one that I wanted to point out.
Let there be no doubting this: any American distribution company which sells a no-frills, high-quality sub a day or two after the same episode airs in Japan will cut the fansubbing problem off at the knees. It's that simple.
This point was lodged in the center of the penultimate paragraph, and I think lost about half the impact it could have had.
I only make the remark because it is a solidpoint; any companies who are willing to supply the demand will rise to the top.
I wonder what would happen if Sony or Nintendo ever figured that out.
I do always love it when you write. Always good for some fun times.
I've no major problems with anything you ave said here. I do still believe that supporting the industry by buying legitimate products (especially well done ones) is important to the industry's survival, you absolutely cannot just shame people into doing so.
Thankfully, a lot of people on the company end are understanding that and are working on trying to fix the correct problems rather than blaming the slightly less correct ones. So it's at least a step in the right direction.
Dr. Mama Cat. (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 09/08/08 | Reply
Best part was the example with the cars. Seriously. It's like they expect you to pay for their unwillingness to work on making a change. Blaming others for your poor business tactics/methods never works. Ever. =P
That made for an interesting read. ^_^ I agree with the sentiment that you expressed here the most.
The industry must provide for the fans, never the fans for the industry.
To say otherwise is fooling yourself. Much like your opening analogy (which set the tone for this post really well btw) you can't expect people to keep doing things the way they have.
Times change and learning to adapt to that change is how they'll survive. I only hope they get smart enough to truly see that.
haseo luver92
Otaku Legend | Posted 09/12/08 | Reply
*claps massivly* wow, i think u've summed up how alot of us feel in words that would've taken me about ten more pages to read (and a lot less ppl that would've read it). this is all very true. and it almost ties in with my "support dub" or at least "support the industry". because now days u can buy the dvd with the original japanese track on it and u don't have to listen to the dub, which helps the industry rather than u just watching the fansubs online. now, i'll admit, i do watch a few fansubs (like ouran) BUT as soon as they have been released in the US, i have made a point to buy all of them. or, with the comic books, buy everyone that i have read ahead of time online. i think i've stuck pretty close to this, and i hope many others do the same thing. because if we keep ripping the companies off, they're not going to release them in the US anymore because it won't be efficient. and i don't know about u guys, but i show my anime/manga collection with pride when ppl come over to my house. ;)
haseo
Allamorph
Spiritus Memorae (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 09/10/08 | Reply
@Fasteriskhead:
I realize the aside, actually. Think of my comment less as objecting and more as seconding the motion, because I felt that what I highlighted could very well add to your focus on the industrial/commercial aspect if followed to its logical end.
Your major point was that we as the fan base owe the company nothing in the way of allegiance(s), and that the company likewise owes us nothing, correct? I believe that a showcasing of distribution companies' unquestionable capacity to provide better service than they do at present, alongside the obvious advantages the action would generate, would drive home the latter point quite forcefully and emphasize the former simultaneously; for why should we feel any sense of obligation to an entity who does not hold us in the same regard?
The argument does lean heavily to the use of rhetoric, but I do not believe it out of place here. And I had better stop now because it seems my contractions are disappearing, which means I'm getting too serious again. =P
Fasteriskhead
Otakuite++ | Posted 09/10/08 | Reply
@Miss Anonymous:
I agree that the big problem in the kind of model I briefly mention here is distributers' power and willingness to buy the shows' rights - in brief, I think much of the problem can be traced back to an extreme rigidity in the kinds of deals that get worked out. So far as I can tell, most licensing works like this: an American distributer, A, wants to license a show from Japanese production company X for series N, so that A has the rights to distribute N in the U.S. for a number of years. A has to buy the entire series (say, 25 episodes) - it has to pay X a large lump sum of money and perhaps also a cut of the series' gross sales. A then prepares its release (adding their dub, printing the DVDs, etc., all of which costs more money), puts N on the shelves or hands it to Adult Swim, and prays that it's popular enough to make back their investment. This kind of deal encourages A not to take risks on relatively obscure shows: if N ends up a dud, A has to take a massive financial hit.
It seems to me that one could find far more flexible and less risky ways of licensing shows for domestic distribution. Imagine that instead of only writing contracts where A buys the rights to particular shows (let's call these N, O, and P) from X, A and X also agree on a kind of standing contract for online distribution with an fee schedule. Let's say the schedule works like this: whenever A wishes, A can buy the rights to individual episodes to translate and offer only as no-frills downloads via a program or service. In return X gets a fee and a percentage of the gross for that episode's online sales, and promises A the first chance to buy the rights for the entire series if it wishes. The period for these limited distribution rights can even be kept at a shorter period (say, a year) with options to renew, so as not to tie up the license. This way, A can buy the series rights to N whole-hog if it thinks it's a sure winner, but it can also take a chance on the more obscure O and P as well (licensing the online distribution of, say, the first three episodes) if there's been some buzz about them and A has a good feeling. If O or P do badly, A simply stops there and only takes a very modest hit; X, in turn, can resell the series to anyone interested when the limited rights expire. If O or P do well, though, A can license the entire series from X, continue to release its episodes online, and make a few extra bucks from DVD sales a few months later.
Anyways, tl;dr. It seems to me that everyone wins out with such an arrangement: Japanese production companies make money on comparatively risky series that may have otherwise never seen the light of day stateside; American production companies, relieved of much of the risk associated with unknown shows, gain much more freedom in terms of where they can invest; fans and consumers gain access to a wider range of programming and a much more convenient way to try it all than waiting for the DVDs or chasing down torrent files. This is the best idea for solving the rights hurdle that I can personally think of, but I'm obviously open to other suggestions.
Fasteriskhead
Otakuite++ | Posted 09/10/08 | Reply
@Allamorph:
Alla: the objection to that point being buried is well-taken, but trying to sell that particular way out wasn't really the point of this essay. What I really wanted to do here was to make a larger point about how the industry and the fandom relate, and to do that while at the same time shifting the debate about fan translations away from the legal/ethical doldrums where it's dwelled (rather uselessly) for the last couple of years. The line you refer to was really just an aside: as I said, I think every intelligent person in the industry already knows what needs to happen if they're going to be viable (beyond the Best Buy crowd, at least) in the coming years.
Miss Anonymous
Vagrant AI (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 09/10/08 | Reply
I think what I liked best about your essay is how you point out at the end that distribution companies have many more advantages than fansubbers, and the only thing keeping them back is the licensing process.
It would be truly great if licensing a show could be done so quickly that a company could legally release subs days after the episode aired. However, that's just it. An ideal business isn't going to license a product unless they think it can sell. Obviously, there's lots of "crap" shows that have been licensed and are currently distributed here in America. But it still stands that it's hard for companies to decide what to license when the show has barely just begun and no one is quite sure of its success just yet. There are other snags in the process as well, but this is just one that I wanted to point out.
Allamorph
Spiritus Memorae (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 09/09/08 | Reply
Let there be no doubting this: any American distribution company which sells a no-frills, high-quality sub a day or two after the same episode airs in Japan will cut the fansubbing problem off at the knees. It's that simple.
This point was lodged in the center of the penultimate paragraph, and I think lost about half the impact it could have had.
I only make the remark because it is a solid point; any companies who are willing to supply the demand will rise to the top.
I wonder what would happen if Sony or Nintendo ever figured that out.
SomeGuy
Canadian Liaison (Team) | Posted 09/09/08 | Reply
I do always love it when you write. Always good for some fun times.
I've no major problems with anything you ave said here. I do still believe that supporting the industry by buying legitimate products (especially well done ones) is important to the industry's survival, you absolutely cannot just shame people into doing so.
Thankfully, a lot of people on the company end are understanding that and are working on trying to fix the correct problems rather than blaming the slightly less correct ones. So it's at least a step in the right direction.
stararnold
Otaku Eternal | Posted 09/09/08 | Reply
Fan support are indeed part of a product's/franchise's success indeed!
Markus wolfe
Grand Otaku | Posted 09/09/08 | Reply
Fools! This has everything to do with the impending economical crisis!
Indi
Dr. Mama Cat. (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 09/08/08 | Reply
Best part was the example with the cars. Seriously. It's like they expect you to pay for their unwillingness to work on making a change. Blaming others for your poor business tactics/methods never works. Ever. =P
~Crystia
Sabrina
Otaku Archangel | Posted 09/08/08 | Reply
That made for an interesting read. ^_^ I agree with the sentiment that you expressed here the most.
The industry must provide for the fans, never the fans for the industry.
To say otherwise is fooling yourself. Much like your opening analogy (which set the tone for this post really well btw) you can't expect people to keep doing things the way they have.
Times change and learning to adapt to that change is how they'll survive. I only hope they get smart enough to truly see that.
-Sabrina