It amazes me that there are still people who believe that the Adam and Eve story is factually accurate, when it clearly is not.

There are a million things that counter it, but there's always one that I find most interesting.

In the Adam and Eve story, Adam was made first and Eve was made from his rib as his companion.

And yet, all human beings begin life as female in the womb. Males are, in fact, a byproduct of females. All fetuses require additional chromosomes at a certain stage of development to make them male - but female is the "default".

So this clear evidence directly contradicts the Adam and Eve story (apart from the millions of other facts and, you know, the idea that the story require such strains of logic as to become untenable).

Still it was a funny chat in that chatroom. It's good to see that nobody was really getting upset or anything.

@Shadweh:

Well, my apologies also if I took anything you said in a way that you hadn't intended. ^^

And about that energy bit: I'm not looking for the types of energy out there. I'm more of looking for its source in general. For example, we can definitely say that the sun is an excellent source of electromagnetic radiation. What we can't say is what enabled it to be that way in the first place.

Again, we do understand why the sun does what it does and how it started its processes. You've got a giant ball of superheated plasma and other elements like hydrogen and helium. You get nuclear fusion when atoms collide into each other at high speed, and those collisions create new elements and release large amounts of energy in the process. You also have the extreme pressure inside the sun due to it's mass, which gives it a massive gravitational force. The sun formed due to the condensation of gases by gravity.

I'm certainly no expert, so I suggest checking out some books or finding some articles on the sun. ^^

@TimeChaser:

My apologies for sounding like I was looking at one side of the story. Truthfully, I was trying to look at it from a philosophical standpoint rather than to take a side completely biased. The reason why I made my original comment in that way was to give religion more of a fighting chance since it's to my belief that we're more prone to defend science due to it's capacity to supply physical answers to our questions. (...I must be thinking about philosophy: that last statement was sure long-winded enough! =_=; )

And about that energy bit: I'm not looking for the types of energy out there. I'm more of looking for its source in general. For example, we can definitely say that the sun is an excellent source of electromagnetic radiation. What we can't say is what enabled it to be that way in the first place.

I'd like to believe that we can eventually find the answer to that and all of our other questions through science, but part of me would also like to keep that a mystery. At the same time though, I'm not supporting any idea that we should "fill in the blanks" through superstition because that train of thought can lead to an infection of ignorance worse than before.

So again, sorry for sounding like I was only looking at it from one standpoint. -_-;

Merry Christmas! ^_~

@TimeChaser:

Sorry. I tried. ^_^'

That was interesting. I haven't really run into that kind of deal yet.

Ohhhh, that song is really weird. The lyrics are so odd. XD

That's weird that they'd ask you to pass on a message instead of simply using pm's.

-Sabrina

I kind of lost interest in even discussing religion years ago. But I don't try to make tell people it's not real since that's just rude. And I don't really know for sure, no one does.

Anyway, I'd look into that anime only the listing for it says mature so... I'll wait until I'm older. That music is fun though. ^_^

As for the last part... silly people.

~*Aaryanna*~

@TwistedCyberChick:

Make a little more sense now? =D

Um... no. >>

A) It's just a story, and Noah is based on similar myths that had already existed in other cultures before then.

B) It's still an extreme reaction to decide everything and everyone should be destroyed.

@TimeChaser:

First: WOOOOO, BLACK LAGOON! I finally started watching Second Barrage last night. The series really is like nothing else, it's just so damn good. X3

I have seasons one and two to watch over the holiday. It's definitely good stuff so far.

~Crystia

@TwistedCyberChick:

But, he also instructed his followers to "shake the dust off [their] feet" if the householder is unreceptive.

It’s a pity that more people don’t know their own religion well enough to grasp that point. I’m not religious at all and I hold to the reasoning that each person has to determine how they choose to live on their own. So I rarely bother to discuss it since what I believe or don’t believe isn’t something I feel the need to press on others.

Sorry to hijack your comment box with such long points, Indi. I'm hoping you don't mind? =D

What? People actually being more logical instead of just shoving the I’m right your wrong spiel down other’s throats? Naturally that kind of discussion is fine. So carry on.

~Crystia

@TimeChaser:

God clearly states what he sees as wicked. (1 Corinthians 6:9,10; Galatians 5:19-21) His standards have never changed. (Malachi 3:6) Worshiping false gods has always been viewed as repugnant to him and he warned all of creation from the beginning what the result of such false worship would be. "You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them, because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation, in the case of those who hate me; but exercising loving-kindness toward the thousandth generation in the case of those who love me and keep my commandments." (Exodus 20:4-6) This is reasonable, since, as Revelation 4:11 states, "You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created." Expecting his creation to worship him exclusively is not an unreasonable concept.

As for the whole Noah ordeal, Genesis 6:4-8 sets the stage for us. Wicked angels had materialized bodies to have relations with women, referenced as Nephilim. It reads, "The Nephilim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the [true] God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame. Consequently Jehovah saw that the badness of man was abundant in the earth and every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time. And Jehovah felt regrets that he had made men in the earth, and he felt hurt at his heart. So Jehovah said: "I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, from man to domestic animal, to moving animal and to flying creature of the heavens, because I do regret that I have made them." But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah."

Then, 11-13, "And the earth came to be ruined in the sight of the [true] God and the earth became filled with violence. So God saw the earth and, look! it was ruined, because all flesh had ruined its way on the earth. After that God said to Noah: "The end of all flesh has come before me, because the earth is full of violence as a result of them; and here I am bringing them to ruin together with the earth."

God obviously had good reason to destroy that early society and even expressed this to his faithful servant Noah. Also, throughout the decades it took for Noah and his family to construct the ark, Noah was instructed to go preach to the people in the surrounding nations, warning them of the Deluge that would take place, telling them to enter the ark with him, but they "took no note."(2 Peter 2:5; Matthew 24:38,39) They were giving the option to survive, but chose not to, dismissing him as a crazy old man, building some huge box-thing off in the woods with his family, which had roughly the displacement of the Titanic.

Here's a nice explanation about the earth flooding in only 40 days, taken from Insight on the Scriptures, Volume I: "Where did the water causing the global Flood come from? During the second creative period, or "day," when the earth’s atmospheric "expanse" was formed, there were waters "beneath the expanse" and waters "above the expanse." (Genesis 1:6, 7) The waters "beneath" were those already on earth. The waters "above" were huge quantities of moisture suspended high above the earth, forming a "vast watery deep." These waters fell upon the earth in Noah’s day."

Make a little more sense now? =D

Lol, people discussing religion on the internet.

As a religious person, I couldn't read past about 11 lines without giving up in disgust at the people defending the Christian side. Threatening people with fire and brimstone is the number 1 way to get them not to take you seriously.

Also: That song is making me want to check out Black Lagoon.

I love it when people try to push their ideals on others.
I basically agree with Gome on this, so there's not much more for me to personally add.

@TwistedCyberChick:

Well, that is one way of turning the argument back on the creationists.

I wonder, though, what you'd define as "wickedness" when God chose to label certain people (and cultures) as wicked? Are they wicked only in the sense that they worshiped a different god or gods? Take the story of Noah, for example. Besides the fact that it's impossible to flood the entire world with just 40 days and nights of rain, God chose to spare only one family and a mere handful of animals. What had the other people done that was so horrible that he decided they deserved to drown, including innocent children and all the rest of the animals (who were obviously blameless of anything to do with human foibles)? I think that's a very extreme reaction.

@Shadweh:

Hi,

I've no wish to start another debate such as the one Indi posted from Chat, but I wanted to respond because I think you should also see things from more than one side.

First off, what exactly do you mean when you say science "can't tell us where energy comes from?" What kind of energy do you mean? Science has enlightened the world on a vast array of energies. We know about nuclear fusion, which gives us nuclear energy, and is the process by which the sun gives off light and all of its energies. We know that light is just one of many forms of electromagnetic energies. We know the processes by which plants and animals take in fuel from the outside (light, water, air, biological matter) which is then converted into nutrients and other compounds that are used to sustain life.

Science doesn't claim to know everything, and scientists revel in the fact that we are still ignorant on certain subjects, otherwise they'd have nothing to investigate and explore. Just because science can't yet explain the exact origin of life doesn't mean it never will. It also doesn't mean the automatic response should be to insert a supernatural cause for everything we don't currently understand, whether that cause is called God or something else, like when the Victorian scientists believed in the invisible medium they dubbed "ether" (not related to the gas of the same name), which has long since been proven false.

Science does have an explanation for how the world became what it is today, and it's called evolution, a very robust concept that has withstood criticism against it for almost 150 years.

My basic point is that I am hoping to challenge you intellectually, for you to investigate things from more than one side, as you say people should do.

@TimeChaser:

I feel your pain. Very few people accurately understand their own religion, and almost all of those are kinda off from an objective viewpoint.

As for death not occurring before the original sin - It should be explained to such people that sin is a human problem, and thus the death that resulted from it would only have been in reference to those sinners, mankind. Animals have always, and will continue to always, die. It's sad how logic doesn't seem to enter the minds of many so-called "religious people."

You should also reason with your grandmother that if her beliefs hold true to what the Bible says, at James 1:13 it states, "When under trial, let no one say: "I am being tried by God." For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone." He wouldn't, and doesn't, do any old thing he fancies with his creation just because it's his.

He destroyed nations in the past that were directly opposing him and his followers and endangering the "promised Seed" (Jesus Christ (Genesis 3:15)) from ever being born, but even in those instances, his judgment was never indiscriminate. The righteous were always preserved, and that destruction was for their benefit. Plus, God always warned the wicked before executing his judgments upon them, allowing them the chance to turn around and stop the evil deeds they were being judged for. (2 Chronicles 36:15)

And far from reveling in the death and destruction that resulted from some of his judicial decisions, God states himself in Ezekial 33:11, "Say to them, '"As I am alive," is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, "I take delight, not in the death of the wicked one, but in that someone wicked turns back from his way and actually keeps living. Turn back, turn back from your bad ways, for why is it that you should die, O house of Israel?"' Similarly, at 2 Peter 3:9, we read, "Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance." How hypocritical it would be to judge people for their cruel ways just to turn around and react in kind. It hurts him to see cruelty in the world. Why would he ever behave that way himself?

(And yes, I feel it important to call God by his personal name, Jehovah, as used over 7000 times in the original Hebrew texts. Most all Bible translations still have it included in at least a few places, most often Psalm 83:18.)

Sorry to hijack your comment box with such long points, Indi. I'm hoping you don't mind? =D

(*deep sigh...*) =_=... Religion in general isn't the easiest of topics to discuss when it comes down to the question, "is it real or not?" By asking that question in the first place you are essentially asking questions about yourself, so to say "no" without actually taking the time to think about it--to me--means that you're not taking yourself seriously. Don't get me wrong, there's PLENTY of room for doubt, but that is a result of only looking at it from one side of the story.

For example, if science alone is so great, then how come it can't give us a direct answer when it comes to the very beginning of life itself, or why the world turned out the way it is? How come it can't tell us where energy comes from? Answer: it can't. Only through faith can we hope to answer questions that aren't tangible. It's also through faith that we can ultimatly learn to believe in others and, more importantly, ourselves.

(On a side note) Die Before I Wake, before you use that argument against Mary and her reasons for agreeing to have Jesus ever again please keep these points in mind:

First) "Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's wife" is one of MAN'S laws. Not God's.
Second) Even science agrees that you don't neccessarily HAVE to have sex in order to concieve a child
And finally to ALL parties involved) Both science and religion are all a matter of interpretation, so both, although useful, are NOT 100% accurate on details. It's up to YOU to think for yourself about what's what and why.

(Good Lord...)

First: WOOOOO, BLACK LAGOON! I finally started watching Second Barrage last night. The series really is like nothing else, it's just so damn good. X3

As for the conversation... sigh. I could go off on a million things ManyAnimeFaces said, but I won't because it would take too long. Oddly enough, I had a religious conversation with my grandmother today. We have them from time to time. She's always going on about how "they" (never specific as to why "they" are) use to sacrifice babies and stuff in ancient times. I tried to point out that God did a lot of nasty things too, but her response is that since he made everything, he is perfectly within his right to do whatever he wants... which is hardly an adequate justification. There are good reasons why some people refer to it as a "celestial dictatorship".

Oh, and I've heard that some creationists argue that dinosaurs couldn't have lived millions of years ago, because there was no death in the world until after the Original Sin... Pardon me while I continue to lose hope in mankind's collective intelligence.

Being able to defend one's faith is very important if that person is to be taken seriously. Atheists have far too much in their arsenal against people who can't succinctly explain their beliefs and the reasons behind them (which there'd better be a sound scriptural basis that he can point to for each belief if one claims to be Christian). It can greatly damage any future prospects of such ones ever taking religion seriously.

If we truly believe that the message we bear is important to someone's eternal salvation, then of course we'll be motivated to share that with those around us. Jesus directly instructed us to do this in the closing verses of Matthew, and the global preaching work that would result was also said to mark the end of this system of things at Matthew 24:14. But, he also instructed his followers to "shake the dust off [their] feet" if the householder is unreceptive. (Matthew 10:14) Free will was bestowed on each one of us. We can choose to believe and take steps to harmonize our life with Christ's teachings, or we can turn the other way and live life as we see fit. I love Deuteronomy 30:19, that states God as having said, "I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive." It is our choice. No one should ever try to force us one way or the other.

You were a very good moderator in that discussion, Indi. ^.^

@:

Oh I know, that whole thing was wrong. ManyAnimeFaces was trying to 'convert' someone who was clearly not interested. At that point, it's best to back off and leave it alone.

The others responses were a clear indicator that the timing was so not right at all. I found it amusing, but only cause they're kids who have a lot of growning up to do.

At least I didn't have to break up any fights.

~Crystia

@Shinmaru:

At any rate, you have lots of awesome to look forward to.

Oh good, cause I hate shows that start out great and fizzle. :3

~Crystia

Coolness, another convert to Black Lagoon. The first season is really good (I especially enjoyed the Loveless storyline), but the second season is a step above it, I think. At any rate, you have lots of awesome to look forward to. :)