oh! so true! What a shame my uncle ish! he's the one doing the whole thing...and I, well I just watch 'em and buy 'em but not download it free...

@Ace:

the "not really a fan" statement to directed to people who only download fansubs and don't buy dvds. Also thank you for the feed back I am new to activism and will try to make my other posts more clear and detailed with support

I support the enthusiasm here, but you use two very large blanket statements in this post alone, which kind of destroys your credibility.

1: "Downloading fansubs means you're not really a fan."

Ignoring the whole definition thing here, this is a really unfair thing to say. I, for example, love Gurren Lagann. I've seen the entire series subbed and enjoyed every minute. So what do I do as soon as the first dubbed boxset arrives in stores? I buy it. Special edition and all. I've done my part to support a franchise I like, so I feel that I deserve to call myself a fan.

2: "More than likely, this person is not buying the product as it becomes available in their area."

Again, this is a pretty unfair accusation. See my above example for how I feel, as I'm one of the ones who buys the products. Statements like this need to be backed up with proof. I could just as easily say that companies look at fansub downloads to find out what is popular and therefore worth localizing (which I understand has at least a smidgen of truth to it.) That kind of statement would be able to found an entire argument about how the only true fans are the sub watchers, since they would be indirectly responsible for the North American releases in the first place. However, I have no proof to back up that statement.

Like I said, it's great to get behind a cause, but it's recommended that you form your arguments a little better beforehand. PeTA has lost almost all of their credibility over the years by exploiting attention-seeking tactics and propaganda, despite the fact that at its very core, they have an extremely worthy cause. Not to compare you to them, but you are going to need to try a little harder to convince anyone that this particular practice is the cancer that's killing anime.

Since fan is tied to the concept of being a "fanatic" or "fanatical about" something, we must take into account that some of the most fanatical people in the world will actually kill the person they admire so they are tied to that person in the public's mind. This doesn't change the fact that they were a "fan" of that person, albeit a rather twisted and demented one. The point you should be arguing (and the point I'm sure Greg or whoever it was you listened to that sparked this post) is what kind of fan someone is proving himself to be. By supporting the thing you love, you show yourself to be a supporting fan. By admiring something but not being willing to fork over money to its makers, you prove yourself a non-supporting fan. Whether that impacts your definition of a "true fan" I can't decide for you.

I do agree that we should support the industries that we love. I love Coke. I buy Coke. A lot. I'd be sad if Coke went out of business. I get upset when people steal Coke (a funny concept XP). I try to turn people into fans of Coke, promoting their future purchase as well. So, I understand your point.

Also, it's unfortunate, but the reality is that people quite often hurt the people and things they love in this world. We often treat our families like crap, take for granted the freedoms our society gives us, and disrespect the authority figures that keep this world from falling into complete disarray. At this point, it's human nature to take rather than give. I'm not saying that's right, but it's how it is.

@fallenangel8:

And we're back to the problem of the dictionary disagreeing. You're trying to tack "spends money on" onto the definition of a fan.

Let me introduce you to a little thing called a fallacy. In this case, you've implied that that no fan downloads fansubs through the argument that you cannot be a fan if you do; I pointed out that the definition of a fan says nothing about monetarily supporting their interest; and you've come back with the No true Scotsman fallacy. That is, with your argument, "But they aren't fans at less not in the eyes of the creators of anime titles," you're basically saying that no true fan downloads fansubs.

You can't simply alter the definition of words to suit your argument.

By the way, I find it incredibly ironic that you've overlooked the very meaning of "fansub" in this whole argument. The term itself includes the word "fan" – they are, by definition, created by and for fans.

@Desbreko:

The people call themselves fan to cover up the fact that they are leechs if I was someone who downloaded fansubs I would to call myself a fan. But they aren't fans at less not in the eyes of the creators of anime titles. Tite Kubo (creator of Bleach) wouldn't care how much you love his series if you download it your a theif and a leech in his eyes.

Zac Bertschy from ANN put it oh so well

Over the years, artists routinely thank their fans; "I wouldn't be here without you," etcetera. They acknowledge and occasionally obey their fans. Why is that? Because the fans support the artist by purchasing their work, buying their movies and merchandise, attending concerts, introduce new fans to the work, all of that. That's why the moniker "fan" is supposed to demand a certain level of respect from the artist, because it's a mutually beneficial relationship. That's why fans are often catered to, that's why artists routinely show their appreciation for their fans. Believe it or not, you are not valuable to the artist if you do not contribute to his success. Simply liking cartoons is not a noble pursuit; you don't deserve to be catered to by the artist simply for enjoying his work. Your well wishes and love for the property mean jack squat if you're not contributing to the cycle that allows the artist's work to be created in the first place.

@fallenangel8:

But if you weren't a fan of cake you wouldn't go to the bakery to get it in the first place.

@Desbreko:

being a leech and being a fan is different how can someone call themselfs a fan if they are stealing from the person they are a "admirer" to if they are "devoted" its counterdicting. If you are a fan of cake are you going to walk in a bakery and take a cake and say to the owner but I am a huge cake fan so I should get it for free anime is no different.

The dictionary disagrees:

fan
-noun
an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime, celebrity, etc.: a baseball fan; a great fan of Charlie Chaplin.