Thank you, unfortunately some people did not believe this would actually happen and yet it is. How sad that some people who are rather unknown might get their artwork stolen.
The Orphan Works Bill has passed the House of Representives and is being rushed through the Senate. In what could be only a matter of days this bill might be LAW.
It's not that the bill is non-existent. It's that the bill is old and it was brought back up several times only to be pushed back down. And so far I've not heard of anyone mentioning that it was revised at all from the first document. So unless it has been revised and I can find out more about a revised version, then I simply think it's still an unfair bill. Though you can write an essay over the same topic in contrast to this one. It would be interesting to hear your own opinion.
Eh? The bill IS several years old, but it has been brought back up time and time again. Why? because the government and a few companies do want to profit from it.
Fan art is not copyrighted in America, but I believe it might be in Japan and some other countries. It honestly depends on the laws of one's country.
Watermarks will not prevent your work from being stolen. Because honestly you can get rid of those using any sort of program even a simple Microsoft picture editor which is nothing compared to that of photoshop. A friend has suggested to repeat the watermark several times. Then do it again on several more layers, so that if they even try to edit, they might give up.
I have no idea if someone would want your fanart. This is pertaining to art in general, not just anime.
Why they made the bill was to make money off of it. The government is not stupid (well, not completely- our current president doesn't say a lot about smarts, but the other people are rather intelligent). They're smart enough to find a way to get more money. Most of all the government is positively corrupt.
It's honestly the artist's opinion of whether they like the bill or not. I don't (obviously), because it is positively unfair to the original artist.
Although bills can be canceled, they never go away. They are either brought back up, stored away, or revised. This bill was brought back up after what I thought was a long dead bill. Of course, there isn't any revision to the first document so far from what I can read.
People say that artists are exaggerating, but so is the government. The government sugarcoats and exaggerates a lot to get anything done. It's what they took public speaking classes and debate for. They convinced us to go to war in the beginning, later we finally realize, it wasn't the correct reaction, but it's too late, it's impossible to pull out troops that quickly without repercussions. Why not try to convince of this too?
That's the thing. Why should we allow to cut through copyright laws?
It's not just fanart I'm talking about. It's art in general. Although fanart can't be copyrighted in America because we have stricter laws, they can be in Japan, because laws are different over there.
Yes, I realize it's when the artist cannot be found, but do you know how many artists I can't find to a single image that is redone several times? It takes a long time to find the original artist, and most of the time he/she may never have known that people were reediting his/her artwork.
It' an issue for artists in general, not just anime. Do you really think just a slap on the wrist going "Original Artist has been found, now you have to stop editing. It doesn't matter at all what you did before."
There are teenagers I have seen before that just pickup random drawings and turn it in for an art assignment even when it's not there's. Is the original artist ever go know? Probably not, because I've not heard of anyone in my school getting caught. It's partially the reason I'm angry about this subject. Just because you don't know who the original artist is, doesn't mean it's alright to use the image.
Thanks ^^
At least you answered my question.
I think I'm going to watermark my work and maybe copyright my logo so I can paste it on my pictures...
Oh, well, I'll have to see.
This bill is causing a lot of rucus already, if the U.S/U.K gouvernement passes this, there will be more hell.
wow, this has gotten waaay outta hand. i think people are taking this bill the wrong way (as i've stated before...)
first off, fanart can't be copyrighted, because it's based offa something that is already copyrighted. as far as internet stealing of fanart and then selling it as their own is a risk u take when u upload stuff on the internet. that's why i never post my original stories on here.
this bill regards to to work where the ORIGINAL OWNER CANNOT BE FOUND! please, go find the other side of the arguement. it'll make much more sense if you read it!!! (if u want the link, just pm me and i'll get it for u, but i'm on a school laptop and i can't get it!)
*thinks hard*
1) I want the truth. Is this bill really cancelled or what?
2) Techinically, they can't take "orphaned" fan art, right? Because fan art TECHINICALLY is copy righted, right?
3) will water marks really prevent my work from being stolen?
4) Who would really want my sucky anime art, anyway? I doubt any big corportations are going to want to use my chibis and neko girls for logos.
5) Is it really safe to be posting art anywhere like theOtaku or DeviantArt is this bill is still in progress?
6) Who's idea was this fricckin' bill anyway? Whoever it was needs to be shot, in the first place, and have his bill making rights revoked in the second place. I mean, honestly... who comes up with this? Was he bored and decided to make such a stupid bill.
7) The government can be stupid, but are they really THAT stupid to pass this bill? I mean, honestly, with so many other issues at hand.
8) Why aren't there more artists representing the not-passing of this bill?
Anybody who can answer these questions, please do.
I'll be off watermarking my work. -_- Just to be on the safe side.
And taking off all my older sucky crap, too.
Yes, a fundamental problem. It depends on how strict that law is, but if the country has no such law, more likely than not, you will not be charged. However, I think it's universally known not to steal artwork.
For example: Do you know why Doujinishi is not sold here in the U.S.? It's because the U.S. has far more strict laws about copyright than Japan does. Japan allows doujinshi of Naruto, One Piece, and other anime because it's not strictly forbidden to do so. But in the U.S. it is. Regardless that Japan has allowed it and they're the original country, the U.S. will not because it is forbidden in the U.s. laws.
Another example is when parents living in Canada decide to call their relatives to kill their daughter and the husband they refuse to acknowledge (I watched this on the news) who is living in one of the middle eastern countries . Regardless of not directly killing,they are still conspirators, but that country cannot do anything to them until Canada receives this as a true court and that it has broken their laws as well. Canada's laws have it where conspirators have equal punishment to the actual killing. However, Canada has yet to acknowledge the other's country request for a hearing. The parents are allowed to show up without their country's permission (but they haven't of course), but to make it official so that they have to go, Canada has to make it official, they've only recently decided to look into the matter.
So yes it does depends on the laws your country has, but international law is universal. Everyone obeys international law regardless of what country you're from, thus killing no matter what country is a big no-no. Forcing copyright is also against international law.
Ah yes! Fun debate and a serious conversation! You're not going far at all. I know the government is corrupted, my class has taught me enough of that.
How late is it for you?
It's really early for me.
Don't worry you can type more later. Though the main issue is more of the fact that they keep on bringing it back up despite it being years old. Only a year ago a school finally desegregated the prom (before they split the 'coloreds' and 'whites' into different buildings altogether- my class gaped and laughed at the news), but I'm sure the topic of whether they should keep it segregated or not kept on coming back such as whether women should have voting rights a long time ago. It's an old bill, I'd rather not see it come back again and again, but there isn't enough people to stomp against the bill coming back for a longer time., perhaps to the point when they might forget about it(hopefully).
Next time, I might pm instead, commenting on here is getting to be very long.
As I said before, they bring it back up.
Bills just don't disappear, they either get stored and brought back up months, maybe even years later, or are edited to suit the senators better (there's a more complex system to it that would really take too long to explain. It's like being back in AP gov). And yes this essay is getting old. I don't even know how I posted it in the first place. I was just trying to post it in my world and get feedback on it, not that I remember how I created it in the beginning...>.< I'm new and I don't know how anything works right now, but when I saw it in the main site...I just went "Oh. How did I do that?"
I clicked on it and found comments to my utter dismay and surprise. I didn't want to type right then, so I just decided to read them. I laughed. Not for anyone to take offense, it's just funny to read how people respond whether the comment is critical, informative, or just plain nonsense. So far I've had one nonsense, a few informative, I think one critical/demeaning (I can't tell with the internet), and one...something.
More than that though, I'm more interested in your opinion and feedback. The issue though is that the bill keeps on coming back up for debate. Most preferable I'd rather not see it brought back ever again, but there isn't enough outcry against it to completely get rid of it.
I rant alot too, so don't worry about it, It's actually fun to find someone who I can have a serious conversation with! :3 (Although I do think if we want to continue along these lines, we should take it to PM's or the like.)
But back to the topic at hand...
...And there I went with the Internet thing again. Bleh. But anyway.
And I actually have next to no -logical- argument on your comment. I think I've seen a company or two that have derived a logo from either a picture or a deceased logo that no one cares about, or is alive to remember.
Well, thank goodness this is America, because if it was any other country, I'd probably be tracked down and imprisoned for what I'm about to say.
The government is somewhat corrupted. It can't be helped. Once people are put in a position of power/authority, they unconsciously let it go to their heads. That's one of the reasons they want to pass this bill. Governments all over the world profit somewhat from what people buy, so it explains why they would want to allow for such a thing.
...Was that going too far? If so, I'll delete this.
I could go a lot deeper into this, and possibly stray from my original purpose, as well as be forced to have the blame of making this into a political debate, but I won't. Mostly because of the time of night, and there really is no reason to go any farther into this. I can't even spell most words right anymore without having to either go back, or use spellcheck. I even actually did stray from this somewhat... heh...
And I still feel the need to type more. But I'll stop now. 'Night. x3
I'm not at all trying to say people don't steal work. I know offhand what people do. (It all goes back to an Art Contest where I found my -really bad- picture of Suou Tamaki from Host Club sitting on a convention table...)
All I was trying to say is that kind of thing isn't what this bill is actually targeting. Basically, over the Internet, there is a limit to how much information you can put up without identity theft occurring. I understand why people get upset over this, but there is little you can do in situations like that. Because you don't really have proof over who you are, and child molesters posing as 15-year-old girls can claim to be 'prettyflower10396' along with five others, including the real person can pop up out of nowhere and want credit for their work.
Now, I'm not saying this girl was wrong for what she did by not posting pictures anymore. Hell, I'd be mad too if people started stealing my stories, but unless it's already posted on my site, and it has record proof, it can't be taken down. (Of course, stories and pictures are two different things, but still.) Unfortunately, in the real world however, there is little, you, or a website can do, that can actually prove the work is yours and get the offender into trouble. Legally, anyway.
And since I lost my train of thought, I'll stop there. (it's probably better for everyone in the long run, anyway.)
Ah, the internet, yes. I didn't know what category to put this under so I just put other internet. The real world actually has a much better handle of the bill than the internet does, but regardless the government isn't as free as it claims to be. And copyright is a major issue among artists and companies. Companies especially. The government is trying to help other companies profit from "orphaned" works. There are quite a few artists who have had their work featured before in magazines and such, but it is entirely possible for the bill to allow magazines and other sources to just find a pretty picture and go, "I think we should use that. It looks good and so goes with the theme. And what do you know. No Copyright!" perhaps because it was a simple picture that someone wanted to show to his/her friends and get advice. No one actually thinks about signatures when it's something quick or fun. People do get mad when they suddenly see their artwork edited all over the place without even one person asking. It's not just anime artwork I speak of, but paintings, drawings, and such that my anime-hating friends see. They always find something photo-shopped or perhaps projects to do something in the style of a certain artist, instead students just paint, draw, or copy the exact artwork of the artist, then alter a few things. That's copyright infringement, but if it's just a photo anyone could use it to paint a portrait without that person's permission. That painting might even win in some contest (of course you may never know) and it still happens, especially in my state for some reason.
....0_0 I need to make my comments shorter. And I still have more to say...
If you really think it's highly unlikely someone can steal your work and profit from it, than you really do not know the extent of what people will do. Someone on DeviantArt has refused to draw anymore fanart of some sort because someone actually did steal her fanart and sold several of them to people. Considering a piece of artwork can range from 10 to 50 dollars when it's a piece of good work, and they could be sold several times, that's quite a bit of money they're making off of someone else's work. And even $25 is a lot when you're hungry and scavenging for anything to make end's meet.
At animecons you can sell your prints and get quite a bit of money if you sell well and of course, your work is good. Do you really want someone else to sell it without telling you, without mentioning you, without getting anything back?
No matter how you look at it, this bill (law... whatever...) isn't targeted at the Internet world. It's more targeted at the idea to protect "ideas based off of already made creations so you don't get your ass sued off at the slightest mention of your idea", to quote a friend of mine.
Sure, there are people take this bill the wrong way, who are Internet users, and try and twist it into the fact "oh, haha thatz soo00 not urz u lozer loooll", which will surely make the Internet spiral into chaos for a bit. But that will be about the extent of the problems. Also, the chances of someone actually stealing something you drew and publishing it on page 37 of TIME magazine is highly unlikely. And, even if you were to say it was yours, you probably wouldn't get very much out of the deal. That is, if they decided to take your angry mail seriously. $25 dollars at most. Also, if you're afraid of that, learn to sign your work.
Basically, it applies more to the real world than anything. And I'm not even going for anime companies, as they already have licenses, so you can't go around claiming to be the creator of Naruto or anything.
I don't know if this helped any, but I tried going for a clear explanation.
The Orphan Works Bill is old, but the government has brought it up again. They keep on trying to pass it. With the bill you would have to register as the original artist or risk people using it all over the place and sometimes even profiting from it. Right now, of course it's not on, the government still tries to convince us to accept. If we just let it slide, it might get passed. I do know how a bill works and how it comes to be and the government tends to sugarcoat things to their advantage such as commercials I had seen before to protect our country we need to get these terrorists in the act. I know that bill. They have been trying to get that bill up for a long time, but couldn't, because there are still people in the U.S. who know the underlying meaning of that one. It means we no longer have any rights to our privacy just like we lose the first amendment the second we step onto school grounds. Yes, artists can be pissed if the Orphan Works bill gets passed, because there are a ton of art works that are hard to find the original artist to on the internet. It doesn't mean we can steal it. Just like other bills, there is an underlying meaning that the government does not expand upon. This article isn't the only one, it's just something I could shorten within my five minute typing spree.
...Civics, I mean. o__O I need to proofread my comments before I start posting them, I guess...
And I suppose I won't be too affected by this anyway, since I've started watermarking all my stuff recently, but it still poses a problem for the many people who haven't yet. And what about people who fake it and clone out an easy-to-clone out watermark just so they can get money off of the art?
THANK YOU for bringing this to the attention of The Otaku. I read about this originally earlier this week on Deviant Art, and it's got me so outraged! This government has already made such bad decisions,this probably seems like nothing to them, but it is. It matters more than they know, since it's pretty much against the constitution. Doesn't the constitution say, not even in an amendment, that if it were violated (the constitution, I mean), the people would be allowed to overthrow the government to reinstate one that will follow the constitution? ...Or am I just getting my Civis lessons jumbled up?
Anyway, I'm hoping that enough people will protest against it that this won't ever be brought up again (Because aparently it was already trying to be a law a few years back). Maybe if we get TEH WHOLE INTARWEBZ against it, they'll have to stop.
...Do you think Al Gore will join our cause? XD (I just kid. That would be pretty awesome, though.)
Sorry for the long comment. This is really serious business, though.
if you read another side to that story, u'll find that mark simons actually exaggerated a little much, because i originally thought the same thing until i read a very different article. (if u want the link, go to vgcats.com and scott rasommeir has it)
basically, orphan works is a law that states any work where the original artist/owner cannot be found then you work with it. for example, if your parents have a wedding picture that's faded, but they want it redone so they can look at it in later. but when they take it into a photo place, they can't get it touched up because the photo is not theirs, but the photographer, and the photographer has been out of business for a long time and nobody knows where he is. so does this mean you shouldn't get your picture redone? no, i personally think you should because you don't want things to get destroyed. (this example was taken from the article)
another example that was a personal expierence is where i drew a picture for a friend, just a normal picture, and she wanted to put it on a birthday cake (for a surprise party for me actually...=_=') but the place wouldn't let her because of copyright issues. O_O that's a little wack in my opionion.
i don't know the entire story by heart, but i do know their is more to the story that mark simons's article, so make sure you read both articles before jumping to conclusions, and on that note, more articles. i myself have not completely made up my mind, but just wanted to throw out another view on it.
Ah, yeah, I've been seeing this talked about on a lot of websites lately.
Actually, good news! There is no Orphan Works Bill currently...the last time it was brought up in the government was years and years ago O_O;. I have no idea where Mark Simon got his sources for his article. He certainly doesn't show many references. And a quick search on US government websites shows no such Bill in the works.
There have been quite a few rebuttals written in response to his article.
A reminder here. I expect politeness when responding to an article. That applies to you and anyone else who replies. I do not want to see more outbursts like this. Thank you.
You know, this would be a more convincing article had you calmly and rationally weighed out the pros and cons of the issue and showed exactly how the con severely outweigh the pros other than what sounds like a soapbox sermon. Honestly, I don't want any of my art plagarized, but I also doubt that there are many Mary Sue OC scribbles that would necessarily be profitable for corporate use. Someone can protect their art by watermarking, which is quite useful. Also, your link needs more support. Try finding multiple sources the next time you write something like this, because it can help credibility. Points should also be listed about how to halt this with the power of the people instead of sitting at a computer and whining.
..and that Ryuu person who commented before me was out of line. A "YOU SUCK" is not going to do anything but make people upset and him look like a jerk.
shedano
Otakuite | Posted 05/21/08 | Reply
@blackwings:
Thank you, unfortunately some people did not believe this would actually happen and yet it is. How sad that some people who are rather unknown might get their artwork stolen.
blackwings
Lady-Blackwings (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 05/20/08 | Reply
The Orphan Works Bill has passed the House of Representives and is being rushed through the Senate. In what could be only a matter of days this bill might be LAW.
blackwings
Lady-Blackwings (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 04/22/08 | Reply
Guess what everyone. The Orphan Works Bill is back. It was brought up again this April.
Here is a new link-
http://www.illustratorspartnership.org/01_topics/article.php?searchterm=00185
shedano
Otakuite | Posted 04/17/08 | Reply
@:
It's not that the bill is non-existent. It's that the bill is old and it was brought back up several times only to be pushed back down. And so far I've not heard of anyone mentioning that it was revised at all from the first document. So unless it has been revised and I can find out more about a revised version, then I simply think it's still an unfair bill. Though you can write an essay over the same topic in contrast to this one. It would be interesting to hear your own opinion.
shedano
Otakuite | Posted 04/17/08 | Reply
@shonenchicklets:
Eh? The bill IS several years old, but it has been brought back up time and time again. Why? because the government and a few companies do want to profit from it.
Fan art is not copyrighted in America, but I believe it might be in Japan and some other countries. It honestly depends on the laws of one's country.
Watermarks will not prevent your work from being stolen. Because honestly you can get rid of those using any sort of program even a simple Microsoft picture editor which is nothing compared to that of photoshop. A friend has suggested to repeat the watermark several times. Then do it again on several more layers, so that if they even try to edit, they might give up.
I have no idea if someone would want your fanart. This is pertaining to art in general, not just anime.
Why they made the bill was to make money off of it. The government is not stupid (well, not completely- our current president doesn't say a lot about smarts, but the other people are rather intelligent). They're smart enough to find a way to get more money. Most of all the government is positively corrupt.
It's honestly the artist's opinion of whether they like the bill or not. I don't (obviously), because it is positively unfair to the original artist.
Although bills can be canceled, they never go away. They are either brought back up, stored away, or revised. This bill was brought back up after what I thought was a long dead bill. Of course, there isn't any revision to the first document so far from what I can read.
People say that artists are exaggerating, but so is the government. The government sugarcoats and exaggerates a lot to get anything done. It's what they took public speaking classes and debate for. They convinced us to go to war in the beginning, later we finally realize, it wasn't the correct reaction, but it's too late, it's impossible to pull out troops that quickly without repercussions. Why not try to convince of this too?
That's the thing. Why should we allow to cut through copyright laws?
shedano
Otakuite | Posted 04/17/08 | Reply
@haseo luver92:
It's not just fanart I'm talking about. It's art in general. Although fanart can't be copyrighted in America because we have stricter laws, they can be in Japan, because laws are different over there.
Yes, I realize it's when the artist cannot be found, but do you know how many artists I can't find to a single image that is redone several times? It takes a long time to find the original artist, and most of the time he/she may never have known that people were reediting his/her artwork.
It' an issue for artists in general, not just anime. Do you really think just a slap on the wrist going "Original Artist has been found, now you have to stop editing. It doesn't matter at all what you did before."
There are teenagers I have seen before that just pickup random drawings and turn it in for an art assignment even when it's not there's. Is the original artist ever go know? Probably not, because I've not heard of anyone in my school getting caught. It's partially the reason I'm angry about this subject. Just because you don't know who the original artist is, doesn't mean it's alright to use the image.
samsam-aka-sam
Otaku Eternal | Posted 04/17/08 | Reply
@shedano:
Thanks ^^
At least you answered my question.
I think I'm going to watermark my work and maybe copyright my logo so I can paste it on my pictures...
Oh, well, I'll have to see.
This bill is causing a lot of rucus already, if the U.S/U.K gouvernement passes this, there will be more hell.
haseo luver92
Otaku Legend | Posted 04/17/08 | Reply
wow, this has gotten waaay outta hand. i think people are taking this bill the wrong way (as i've stated before...)
first off, fanart can't be copyrighted, because it's based offa something that is already copyrighted. as far as internet stealing of fanart and then selling it as their own is a risk u take when u upload stuff on the internet. that's why i never post my original stories on here.
this bill regards to to work where the ORIGINAL OWNER CANNOT BE FOUND! please, go find the other side of the arguement. it'll make much more sense if you read it!!! (if u want the link, just pm me and i'll get it for u, but i'm on a school laptop and i can't get it!)
haseo
shonenchicklets
Otakuite+ | Posted 04/17/08 | Reply
@Neko.Lover:
*thinks hard*
1) I want the truth. Is this bill really cancelled or what?
2) Techinically, they can't take "orphaned" fan art, right? Because fan art TECHINICALLY is copy righted, right?
3) will water marks really prevent my work from being stolen?
4) Who would really want my sucky anime art, anyway? I doubt any big corportations are going to want to use my chibis and neko girls for logos.
5) Is it really safe to be posting art anywhere like theOtaku or DeviantArt is this bill is still in progress?
6) Who's idea was this fricckin' bill anyway? Whoever it was needs to be shot, in the first place, and have his bill making rights revoked in the second place. I mean, honestly... who comes up with this? Was he bored and decided to make such a stupid bill.
7) The government can be stupid, but are they really THAT stupid to pass this bill? I mean, honestly, with so many other issues at hand.
8) Why aren't there more artists representing the not-passing of this bill?
Anybody who can answer these questions, please do.
I'll be off watermarking my work. -_- Just to be on the safe side.
And taking off all my older sucky crap, too.
shedano
Otakuite | Posted 04/17/08 | Reply
@samsam-aka-sam:
Yes, a fundamental problem. It depends on how strict that law is, but if the country has no such law, more likely than not, you will not be charged. However, I think it's universally known not to steal artwork.
For example: Do you know why Doujinishi is not sold here in the U.S.? It's because the U.S. has far more strict laws about copyright than Japan does. Japan allows doujinshi of Naruto, One Piece, and other anime because it's not strictly forbidden to do so. But in the U.S. it is. Regardless that Japan has allowed it and they're the original country, the U.S. will not because it is forbidden in the U.s. laws.
Another example is when parents living in Canada decide to call their relatives to kill their daughter and the husband they refuse to acknowledge (I watched this on the news) who is living in one of the middle eastern countries . Regardless of not directly killing,they are still conspirators, but that country cannot do anything to them until Canada receives this as a true court and that it has broken their laws as well. Canada's laws have it where conspirators have equal punishment to the actual killing. However, Canada has yet to acknowledge the other's country request for a hearing. The parents are allowed to show up without their country's permission (but they haven't of course), but to make it official so that they have to go, Canada has to make it official, they've only recently decided to look into the matter.
So yes it does depends on the laws your country has, but international law is universal. Everyone obeys international law regardless of what country you're from, thus killing no matter what country is a big no-no. Forcing copyright is also against international law.
samsam-aka-sam
Otaku Eternal | Posted 04/17/08 | Reply
Question: What if you live in another country and your art is stolen? Will they be charge because it isn't within their law?
shedano
Otakuite | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
@SakuraKatana:
Ah yes! Fun debate and a serious conversation! You're not going far at all. I know the government is corrupted, my class has taught me enough of that.
How late is it for you?
It's really early for me.
Don't worry you can type more later. Though the main issue is more of the fact that they keep on bringing it back up despite it being years old. Only a year ago a school finally desegregated the prom (before they split the 'coloreds' and 'whites' into different buildings altogether- my class gaped and laughed at the news), but I'm sure the topic of whether they should keep it segregated or not kept on coming back such as whether women should have voting rights a long time ago. It's an old bill, I'd rather not see it come back again and again, but there isn't enough people to stomp against the bill coming back for a longer time., perhaps to the point when they might forget about it(hopefully).
Next time, I might pm instead, commenting on here is getting to be very long.
shedano
Otakuite | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
@Neko.Lover:
As I said before, they bring it back up.
Bills just don't disappear, they either get stored and brought back up months, maybe even years later, or are edited to suit the senators better (there's a more complex system to it that would really take too long to explain. It's like being back in AP gov). And yes this essay is getting old. I don't even know how I posted it in the first place. I was just trying to post it in my world and get feedback on it, not that I remember how I created it in the beginning...>.< I'm new and I don't know how anything works right now, but when I saw it in the main site...I just went "Oh. How did I do that?"
I clicked on it and found comments to my utter dismay and surprise. I didn't want to type right then, so I just decided to read them. I laughed. Not for anyone to take offense, it's just funny to read how people respond whether the comment is critical, informative, or just plain nonsense. So far I've had one nonsense, a few informative, I think one critical/demeaning (I can't tell with the internet), and one...something.
More than that though, I'm more interested in your opinion and feedback. The issue though is that the bill keeps on coming back up for debate. Most preferable I'd rather not see it brought back ever again, but there isn't enough outcry against it to completely get rid of it.
SakuraKatana
Otakuite+ | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
@shedano:
Ha. My reply was a tad late... xP
I rant alot too, so don't worry about it, It's actually fun to find someone who I can have a serious conversation with! :3 (Although I do think if we want to continue along these lines, we should take it to PM's or the like.)
But back to the topic at hand...
...And there I went with the Internet thing again. Bleh. But anyway.
And I actually have next to no -logical- argument on your comment. I think I've seen a company or two that have derived a logo from either a picture or a deceased logo that no one cares about, or is alive to remember.
Well, thank goodness this is America, because if it was any other country, I'd probably be tracked down and imprisoned for what I'm about to say.
The government is somewhat corrupted. It can't be helped. Once people are put in a position of power/authority, they unconsciously let it go to their heads. That's one of the reasons they want to pass this bill. Governments all over the world profit somewhat from what people buy, so it explains why they would want to allow for such a thing.
...Was that going too far? If so, I'll delete this.
I could go a lot deeper into this, and possibly stray from my original purpose, as well as be forced to have the blame of making this into a political debate, but I won't. Mostly because of the time of night, and there really is no reason to go any farther into this. I can't even spell most words right anymore without having to either go back, or use spellcheck. I even actually did stray from this somewhat... heh...
And I still feel the need to type more. But I'll stop now. 'Night. x3
Neko.Lover
Senior Otaku | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
This is getting old people. :<
The bill was canceled a long time ago.
SakuraKatana
Otakuite+ | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
@shedano:
I'm not at all trying to say people don't steal work. I know offhand what people do. (It all goes back to an Art Contest where I found my -really bad- picture of Suou Tamaki from Host Club sitting on a convention table...)
All I was trying to say is that kind of thing isn't what this bill is actually targeting. Basically, over the Internet, there is a limit to how much information you can put up without identity theft occurring. I understand why people get upset over this, but there is little you can do in situations like that. Because you don't really have proof over who you are, and child molesters posing as 15-year-old girls can claim to be 'prettyflower10396' along with five others, including the real person can pop up out of nowhere and want credit for their work.
Now, I'm not saying this girl was wrong for what she did by not posting pictures anymore. Hell, I'd be mad too if people started stealing my stories, but unless it's already posted on my site, and it has record proof, it can't be taken down. (Of course, stories and pictures are two different things, but still.) Unfortunately, in the real world however, there is little, you, or a website can do, that can actually prove the work is yours and get the offender into trouble. Legally, anyway.
And since I lost my train of thought, I'll stop there. (it's probably better for everyone in the long run, anyway.)
shedano
Otakuite | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
@SakuraKatana:
Ah, the internet, yes. I didn't know what category to put this under so I just put other internet. The real world actually has a much better handle of the bill than the internet does, but regardless the government isn't as free as it claims to be. And copyright is a major issue among artists and companies. Companies especially. The government is trying to help other companies profit from "orphaned" works. There are quite a few artists who have had their work featured before in magazines and such, but it is entirely possible for the bill to allow magazines and other sources to just find a pretty picture and go, "I think we should use that. It looks good and so goes with the theme. And what do you know. No Copyright!" perhaps because it was a simple picture that someone wanted to show to his/her friends and get advice. No one actually thinks about signatures when it's something quick or fun. People do get mad when they suddenly see their artwork edited all over the place without even one person asking. It's not just anime artwork I speak of, but paintings, drawings, and such that my anime-hating friends see. They always find something photo-shopped or perhaps projects to do something in the style of a certain artist, instead students just paint, draw, or copy the exact artwork of the artist, then alter a few things. That's copyright infringement, but if it's just a photo anyone could use it to paint a portrait without that person's permission. That painting might even win in some contest (of course you may never know) and it still happens, especially in my state for some reason.
....0_0 I need to make my comments shorter. And I still have more to say...
shedano
Otakuite | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
If you really think it's highly unlikely someone can steal your work and profit from it, than you really do not know the extent of what people will do. Someone on DeviantArt has refused to draw anymore fanart of some sort because someone actually did steal her fanart and sold several of them to people. Considering a piece of artwork can range from 10 to 50 dollars when it's a piece of good work, and they could be sold several times, that's quite a bit of money they're making off of someone else's work. And even $25 is a lot when you're hungry and scavenging for anything to make end's meet.
At animecons you can sell your prints and get quite a bit of money if you sell well and of course, your work is good. Do you really want someone else to sell it without telling you, without mentioning you, without getting anything back?
SakuraKatana
Otakuite+ | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
No matter how you look at it, this bill (law... whatever...) isn't targeted at the Internet world. It's more targeted at the idea to protect "ideas based off of already made creations so you don't get your ass sued off at the slightest mention of your idea", to quote a friend of mine.
Sure, there are people take this bill the wrong way, who are Internet users, and try and twist it into the fact "oh, haha thatz soo00 not urz u lozer loooll", which will surely make the Internet spiral into chaos for a bit. But that will be about the extent of the problems. Also, the chances of someone actually stealing something you drew and publishing it on page 37 of TIME magazine is highly unlikely. And, even if you were to say it was yours, you probably wouldn't get very much out of the deal. That is, if they decided to take your angry mail seriously. $25 dollars at most. Also, if you're afraid of that, learn to sign your work.
Basically, it applies more to the real world than anything. And I'm not even going for anime companies, as they already have licenses, so you can't go around claiming to be the creator of Naruto or anything.
I don't know if this helped any, but I tried going for a clear explanation.
nEcRo64x
Otakuite+ | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
That is very disturbing. The government now wants the power to steal people's artwork... where do they draw the line?
Michiyo Shimizu
Queen of theO � (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
ohhh ;^; I already wrote about this on my world profile xD; Yours is better though.. ;^;' lol
down with that stupid bill D
I am not a follower, I am a friend. I do not ask for subscribers, only friends.
Markus wolfe
Grand Otaku | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
BLOODY PIRATES!
Yeah, I said it. I called them pirates.
Well, they're more like privateers, but you get my point.
Interesting thing is, this isn't an international bill.
So if it's passed, it may or may not effect me since I live in Canada.
Think about it: A guy in Canada uploads his artwork to an American website, can his work be legally stolen?
shedano
Otakuite | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
The Orphan Works Bill is old, but the government has brought it up again. They keep on trying to pass it. With the bill you would have to register as the original artist or risk people using it all over the place and sometimes even profiting from it. Right now, of course it's not on, the government still tries to convince us to accept. If we just let it slide, it might get passed. I do know how a bill works and how it comes to be and the government tends to sugarcoat things to their advantage such as commercials I had seen before to protect our country we need to get these terrorists in the act. I know that bill. They have been trying to get that bill up for a long time, but couldn't, because there are still people in the U.S. who know the underlying meaning of that one. It means we no longer have any rights to our privacy just like we lose the first amendment the second we step onto school grounds. Yes, artists can be pissed if the Orphan Works bill gets passed, because there are a ton of art works that are hard to find the original artist to on the internet. It doesn't mean we can steal it. Just like other bills, there is an underlying meaning that the government does not expand upon. This article isn't the only one, it's just something I could shorten within my five minute typing spree.
Kyrianne
Otaku Eternal | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
@Kyrianne:
...Civics, I mean. o__O I need to proofread my comments before I start posting them, I guess...
And I suppose I won't be too affected by this anyway, since I've started watermarking all my stuff recently, but it still poses a problem for the many people who haven't yet. And what about people who fake it and clone out an easy-to-clone out watermark just so they can get money off of the art?
That's the kind of thing I'm worried about...
Kyrianne
Otaku Eternal | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
THANK YOU for bringing this to the attention of The Otaku. I read about this originally earlier this week on Deviant Art, and it's got me so outraged! This government has already made such bad decisions,this probably seems like nothing to them, but it is. It matters more than they know, since it's pretty much against the constitution. Doesn't the constitution say, not even in an amendment, that if it were violated (the constitution, I mean), the people would be allowed to overthrow the government to reinstate one that will follow the constitution? ...Or am I just getting my Civis lessons jumbled up?
Anyway, I'm hoping that enough people will protest against it that this won't ever be brought up again (Because aparently it was already trying to be a law a few years back). Maybe if we get TEH WHOLE INTARWEBZ against it, they'll have to stop.
...Do you think Al Gore will join our cause? XD (I just kid. That would be pretty awesome, though.)
Sorry for the long comment. This is really serious business, though.
~Kyrianne
red tigress
Raid Boss (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
I just want to thank the people who commented with new links, explaining the situation because I had not heard about this.
Good article, thanks for calling my attention to the situation, but like Nehszriah said, next time you might want to use a few more sources.
demondog ninja
Senior Otaku+ | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
O.O that's really bad, if they're trying to do something like that.... i don't want my art stolen!!
haseo luver92
Otaku Legend | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
if you read another side to that story, u'll find that mark simons actually exaggerated a little much, because i originally thought the same thing until i read a very different article. (if u want the link, go to vgcats.com and scott rasommeir has it)
basically, orphan works is a law that states any work where the original artist/owner cannot be found then you work with it. for example, if your parents have a wedding picture that's faded, but they want it redone so they can look at it in later. but when they take it into a photo place, they can't get it touched up because the photo is not theirs, but the photographer, and the photographer has been out of business for a long time and nobody knows where he is. so does this mean you shouldn't get your picture redone? no, i personally think you should because you don't want things to get destroyed. (this example was taken from the article)
another example that was a personal expierence is where i drew a picture for a friend, just a normal picture, and she wanted to put it on a birthday cake (for a surprise party for me actually...=_=') but the place wouldn't let her because of copyright issues. O_O that's a little wack in my opionion.
i don't know the entire story by heart, but i do know their is more to the story that mark simons's article, so make sure you read both articles before jumping to conclusions, and on that note, more articles. i myself have not completely made up my mind, but just wanted to throw out another view on it.
haseo
kathy100
Otakuite+ | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
Ah, yeah, I've been seeing this talked about on a lot of websites lately.
Actually, good news! There is no Orphan Works Bill currently...the last time it was brought up in the government was years and years ago O_O;. I have no idea where Mark Simon got his sources for his article. He certainly doesn't show many references. And a quick search on US government websites shows no such Bill in the works.
There have been quite a few rebuttals written in response to his article.
http://maradydd.livejournal.com/374886.html
has a nice one, with lots of references and clear explanations XD
SunfallE
Nyaa~ (ZE MEANIE) | Posted 04/16/08 | Reply
@Ryuu Yukimura:
A reminder here. I expect politeness when responding to an article. That applies to you and anyone else who replies. I do not want to see more outbursts like this. Thank you.
SunfallE
TheOtaku Staff
In the name of the tune I will punish you!
Nehszriah
Hits Self With Axe (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 04/15/08 | Reply
You know, this would be a more convincing article had you calmly and rationally weighed out the pros and cons of the issue and showed exactly how the con severely outweigh the pros other than what sounds like a soapbox sermon. Honestly, I don't want any of my art plagarized, but I also doubt that there are many Mary Sue OC scribbles that would necessarily be profitable for corporate use. Someone can protect their art by watermarking, which is quite useful. Also, your link needs more support. Try finding multiple sources the next time you write something like this, because it can help credibility. Points should also be listed about how to halt this with the power of the people instead of sitting at a computer and whining.
..and that Ryuu person who commented before me was out of line. A "YOU SUCK" is not going to do anything but make people upset and him look like a jerk.
Be true, be you and of course, be otaku.
Ryuu Yukimura
Otakuite | Posted 04/15/08 | Reply
Dude, SCREW! YOU! Orphan Works Bill!!!!
YOU SUCK!