o_o Well that was just rude. I don't understand why they got mad. If we were required to provide quote sources, wouldn't it say so in the Terms of Service? I know, I read it.
Also, it tells you this too (though I'm sure you know this since you posted it):
Do not attempt to get into a flame war with the submitter (e.g. "YOU JERK! YOU PLAGIARIZED THIS!"), or you might get into trouble as well.
So they broke the rules by being rude and trying to bully the member. It says to quietly report it. I wouldn't call that being quiet. o_o And you asked them to stop and they refused to do so.
I don't get it. If you told me not to do something, I might ask you to explain why, but I would do as you asked. I'm not a mod so it's not my job. ^^
o_o Stuff like this, makes me glad I don't have your job. I wouldn't want to have to deal with people like that, as a member or a moderator. ^^ Thank you for taking care of it.
Yeah arguing with the person who would be your boss if you actually were a moderator… doesn't fill me with any confidence that they'd actually uphold the site terms as expected. If anything, that put them on my list of people who are completely unsuitable for the position of moderator. o_O
Exactly and even the claim for plagiarism for quotes is very, very iffy. Quotes can't be copyrighted. You have to have enough material from say an article or book in order for it to be considered theft. Quotes often don't fall under that, at least ones less than say 150 words. Stuff like that is usually considered a trademark and has to have some level of creative or artistic touch that makes it unique to the person or company that uses it.
Another consideration is whether or not there is any commercial or academic gain from the use of the quote. Obviously for a site like this there is not. Adam doesn't charge for people to send e-cards and the creator gets nothing for it financially or academically either.
So they're nitpicking the literal nature of plagiarism and failing to grasp that no one would come after theOtaku for it, because it’s not plagiarism that warrants action. Even if they used something like "Just do it." which is a trademark by Nike, companies like that have no interest in coming after us and theOtaku is protected by Internet laws that don’t hold Adam liable for third party content that is posted on his site.
So definitely a very poor attitude and totally overzealous approach to something that isn't a real plagiarism issue. I’ve been moderating here for over three years and we’ve never required people to cite the source of silly quotes on their cards or lyrics that they use on their wallpapers.
Bottom line, it's not an issue and shouldn't be one really. And yes, the rudeness is totally unacceptable as well.
Last edited by SunfallE at 7:55:03 AM EDT on June 12, 2009.
o_O Wow, not only are they full of themselves, but they're pretty damn rude to boot. Also, the e-cards here aren't commercial, they're not a part of someone's homework and I'd hardly consider it plagiarized. It's not like fan art and wallpapers, there's just no comparison at all.
I think it's a given that everyone knows that quotes on e-card aren't made up by the person. So to fly off the handle and berate members and say they're worthless over that, is truly childish on their part.
I find it unbelievably arrogant on their part to think they'd be a good moderator. I'd be concerned that they'd be harassing members behind closed doors over anything they didn't agree with. Like the quote issue.
Not only that, they were arguing with the very person who would actually be their boss, if they were a moderator, telling them they were literally horrible and did a poor job. Not exactly the best way to get a job.
I'm just sorry you have to put up with crap like this Beth. Though I'm glad you dealt with it. People don't need to deal with idiots like that. Seriously.
Perhaps I can answer this the best. If there is no mod present and it's not your room, backseat moderation probably isn't the answer. Let Beth and us do our jobs by sending us the log so we can either forward it on to Beth and/or discuss it in private. That way, we can act quickly on the issue as opposed to someone else saying it and having the situation getting out of hand. So you're right by initially just sending us the chat log. We're pretty swift about that kind of stuff. ;)
Dr. Mama Cat. (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 06/10/09 | Reply
Goodness, someone has a very high opinion of themselves. They had the chance to just accept that quotes like that are allowed and yet continued to argue their right to be an ass to others, as someone already said... how egotistical.
I get the feeling that this person isn't going to learn their lesson and will merely continue to be a pain in the butt. Tis a shame really, to lose your account over something so trivial.
I'll admit, I snerked at the bit about them being a moderator, someone like that lacks the objectivity to be one in the first place with their confrontational and hostile nature.
If they can't even accept the current rules, they'd be a disaster in the making since they'd moderate things based on how they think they should be done instead of following the rules, even ones they don't care for.
Good luck dealing with that, I don't envy you Beth. =P
And I can find articles showing that even reliable sources like Encyclopedia Britannica have issues with errors: Click meh! So what makes you think your history book is any different?
If anything your response here clearly shows that you haven't learned anything from this experience.
As for the sister's account story, I find it unlikely that it really is her account (though perhaps in the past it was) after all I took a look the other day and there were no subscriptions or even a world until AFTER you got busted for misbehaving.
And I also saw that you went and made another new account recently. I did tell you that I was going to keep an eye on you didn't I? I've now taken care of that.
Oh and as for deleting this post, no deal. You made many mistakes here and refused to own up to, or even admit it. You're still on the tangent of I'm right and you're wrong and didn't even apologize for your rude behavior.
This isn't an rpg game where you can turn it off and go back to the last saved spot so certain things didn't happen. The post stays.
If you have any doubts, go ahead and send a log to us. Feel free to tell us that you're not certain whether to be really concerned or just a little wary, because that'll help us as well.
Remember, just because you send us a log of a chat concerning a member, that doesn't mean that we'll automatically crack down on them. We look at the context and the severity of the situation as well, and we'll take measures appropriately. Sometimes we just watch members. Other times we ask Beth if they need to be removed from chat for a short period of time or such.
But we don't know to even watch for people if we get told nothing.
However, I am glad that you're utilising your own judgment on these situations. Shows good thinking on your part.
I thought it was funny when the person reported the e card and then that didn't work for them. then they left a comment saying that if they didn't do what they said then they were going to report them.
And the way we help out on this site and be anything close to a moderator is reporting, and maybe warning people about their swearing or topic of choice to talk about when a mod isn't in the room. But that's it. Ah well Beth, you always know how to handle these things.
You know that someone truly cares when they brick you like that. -AZ
Wow, how rude this person was from the very begining.
Well, in my case when I mentioned on my last comment that I try to help you guys, I meant little things that happens to me specifically ( I've been harassed and falsely accused from various stuff around here and my own art has been stolen a few times), instead of running to you guys, I solve them with the person in a very modest and respectful way ( when most of the times doesn't happen with the person I am trying to solve with) or when emotions gets over board or even offensive at the community chat when you guys are not around.
So I do believe what I've done and do is not considered as backseat moderating? Please enlight me if its so. ^_^
As for the member rudeness itself, I do hope with being banned part help them understand that behaving in such manner or false accusing members without enough proof to support it, usually is not the way to go.
Last edited by ShadowLight at 12:24:05 PM EDT on June 10, 2009.
The Stalker (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 06/10/09 | Reply
I do have a question though.
When your in the chatroom, you're allowed to moderate your own room and stuff, but what if your in the lobby without any moderaters or maybe in someone else's room with no mods or room owners?
For most things, we should just report it with a chat log, right? What if its not that bad, but they are being a little too rough, like i've had people make fun of me on there, but it wasnt for very long, and so i didnt think that i should send that, and i should just take care of it myself. Was that the right thing to do or should i just send the log to a mod?
Just curious.
Last edited by kittens 3 at 11:12:59 AM EDT on June 10, 2009.
Can we say uptight and overzealous? Also, I found the generalization that the people who use quotes and don't cite the source were 'worthless little children degrading the work of others' painfully stupid.
And to top it off, they didn't even have it right when it came to where the quote came from. o_O I honestly hope you banned them for that self righteous crap they were doing to other members.
Maybe that will give them the wake up call they seem to need, and they'll lighten up and stop being so anal about stuff that isn't even their job to deal with.
Selene Shri
Grand Otaku | Posted 06/15/09 | Reply
o_o Well that was just rude. I don't understand why they got mad. If we were required to provide quote sources, wouldn't it say so in the Terms of Service? I know, I read it.
Also, it tells you this too (though I'm sure you know this since you posted it):
Do not attempt to get into a flame war with the submitter (e.g. "YOU JERK! YOU PLAGIARIZED THIS!"), or you might get into trouble as well.
So they broke the rules by being rude and trying to bully the member. It says to quietly report it. I wouldn't call that being quiet. o_o And you asked them to stop and they refused to do so.
I don't get it. If you told me not to do something, I might ask you to explain why, but I would do as you asked. I'm not a mod so it's not my job. ^^
~Sarah
Sabrina
Otaku Archangel | Posted 06/12/09 | Reply
o_o Stuff like this, makes me glad I don't have your job. I wouldn't want to have to deal with people like that, as a member or a moderator. ^^ Thank you for taking care of it.
-Sabrina
SunfallE
Nyaa~ (ZE MEANIE) | Posted 06/12/09 | Reply
@Rachmaninoff:
Yeah arguing with the person who would be your boss if you actually were a moderator… doesn't fill me with any confidence that they'd actually uphold the site terms as expected. If anything, that put them on my list of people who are completely unsuitable for the position of moderator. o_O
In the name of the tune I will punish you!
SunfallE
Nyaa~ (ZE MEANIE) | Posted 06/12/09 | Reply
@Ace:
Exactly and even the claim for plagiarism for quotes is very, very iffy. Quotes can't be copyrighted. You have to have enough material from say an article or book in order for it to be considered theft. Quotes often don't fall under that, at least ones less than say 150 words. Stuff like that is usually considered a trademark and has to have some level of creative or artistic touch that makes it unique to the person or company that uses it.
Another consideration is whether or not there is any commercial or academic gain from the use of the quote. Obviously for a site like this there is not. Adam doesn't charge for people to send e-cards and the creator gets nothing for it financially or academically either.
So they're nitpicking the literal nature of plagiarism and failing to grasp that no one would come after theOtaku for it, because it’s not plagiarism that warrants action. Even if they used something like "Just do it." which is a trademark by Nike, companies like that have no interest in coming after us and theOtaku is protected by Internet laws that don’t hold Adam liable for third party content that is posted on his site.
So definitely a very poor attitude and totally overzealous approach to something that isn't a real plagiarism issue. I’ve been moderating here for over three years and we’ve never required people to cite the source of silly quotes on their cards or lyrics that they use on their wallpapers.
Bottom line, it's not an issue and shouldn't be one really. And yes, the rudeness is totally unacceptable as well.
Last edited by SunfallE at 7:55:03 AM EDT on June 12, 2009.
In the name of the tune I will punish you!
Aaryanna
Otaku Legend | Posted 06/11/09 | Reply
The others have already covered it. I'm glad you took care of it. o_O Their whole attitude is really quite absurd and unnecessary.
~Aaryanna*~
Rachmaninoff
Otaku Legend | Posted 06/11/09 | Reply
o_O Wow, not only are they full of themselves, but they're pretty damn rude to boot. Also, the e-cards here aren't commercial, they're not a part of someone's homework and I'd hardly consider it plagiarized. It's not like fan art and wallpapers, there's just no comparison at all.
I think it's a given that everyone knows that quotes on e-card aren't made up by the person. So to fly off the handle and berate members and say they're worthless over that, is truly childish on their part.
I find it unbelievably arrogant on their part to think they'd be a good moderator. I'd be concerned that they'd be harassing members behind closed doors over anything they didn't agree with. Like the quote issue.
Not only that, they were arguing with the very person who would actually be their boss, if they were a moderator, telling them they were literally horrible and did a poor job. Not exactly the best way to get a job.
I'm just sorry you have to put up with crap like this Beth. Though I'm glad you dealt with it. People don't need to deal with idiots like that. Seriously.
Ace
Senile Hipster (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 06/11/09 | Reply
Aren't human relations kind of a big deal when you're in a position of authority?
So whether or not they were right about the plagiarism, the rudeness is still kind of an issue. :/
kittens 3
The Stalker (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 06/10/09 | Reply
@Korey:
Okay, can do then. :)
Korey
Gambino (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 06/10/09 | Reply
@kittens 3:
Perhaps I can answer this the best. If there is no mod present and it's not your room, backseat moderation probably isn't the answer. Let Beth and us do our jobs by sending us the log so we can either forward it on to Beth and/or discuss it in private. That way, we can act quickly on the issue as opposed to someone else saying it and having the situation getting out of hand. So you're right by initially just sending us the chat log. We're pretty swift about that kind of stuff. ;)
Indi
Dr. Mama Cat. (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 06/10/09 | Reply
Goodness, someone has a very high opinion of themselves. They had the chance to just accept that quotes like that are allowed and yet continued to argue their right to be an ass to others, as someone already said... how egotistical.
I get the feeling that this person isn't going to learn their lesson and will merely continue to be a pain in the butt. Tis a shame really, to lose your account over something so trivial.
I'll admit, I snerked at the bit about them being a moderator, someone like that lacks the objectivity to be one in the first place with their confrontational and hostile nature.
If they can't even accept the current rules, they'd be a disaster in the making since they'd moderate things based on how they think they should be done instead of following the rules, even ones they don't care for.
Good luck dealing with that, I don't envy you Beth. =P
~Crystia
SunfallE
Nyaa~ (ZE MEANIE) | Posted 06/10/09 | Reply
@TaintedOctober:
And I can find articles showing that even reliable sources like Encyclopedia Britannica have issues with errors: Click meh! So what makes you think your history book is any different?
If anything your response here clearly shows that you haven't learned anything from this experience.
As for the sister's account story, I find it unlikely that it really is her account (though perhaps in the past it was) after all I took a look the other day and there were no subscriptions or even a world until AFTER you got busted for misbehaving.
And I also saw that you went and made another new account recently. I did tell you that I was going to keep an eye on you didn't I? I've now taken care of that.
Oh and as for deleting this post, no deal. You made many mistakes here and refused to own up to, or even admit it. You're still on the tangent of I'm right and you're wrong and didn't even apologize for your rude behavior.
This isn't an rpg game where you can turn it off and go back to the last saved spot so certain things didn't happen. The post stays.
In the name of the tune I will punish you!
TaintedOctober
Otakuite | Posted 06/10/09 | Reply
Oh, I have that quote in my history book!!
>>
Maybe it is wrong. You know those brand new additions tend to lie a lot.
I'd like it if you'd stop talking about this subject.
"Kthanx."
(Sisters account)
So This is my only post to you. >>
Oh, your find: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/180706/wikipedia_useful_information_or_unreliable.html?cat=15
http://media.www.redandblack.com/media/storage/paper871/news/2007/02/20/Opinions/Wikipedia.Nifty.But.Unreliable-2729189.shtml
By the way, I'd really like it if you were to delete this post. :P
So we can all forget about each other.
Last edited by TaintedOctober at 4:37:19 PM EDT on June 10, 2009.
kittens 3
The Stalker (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 06/10/09 | Reply
@Allamorph:
Okay, i see. Thanks.
Allamorph
Spiritus Memorae (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 06/10/09 | Reply
@kittens 3:
If you have any doubts, go ahead and send a log to us. Feel free to tell us that you're not certain whether to be really concerned or just a little wary, because that'll help us as well.
Remember, just because you send us a log of a chat concerning a member, that doesn't mean that we'll automatically crack down on them. We look at the context and the severity of the situation as well, and we'll take measures appropriately. Sometimes we just watch members. Other times we ask Beth if they need to be removed from chat for a short period of time or such.
But we don't know to even watch for people if we get told nothing.
However, I am glad that you're utilising your own judgment on these situations. Shows good thinking on your part.
Hiko
Otaku Eternal | Posted 06/10/09 | Reply
I thought it was funny when the person reported the e card and then that didn't work for them. then they left a comment saying that if they didn't do what they said then they were going to report them.
And the way we help out on this site and be anything close to a moderator is reporting, and maybe warning people about their swearing or topic of choice to talk about when a mod isn't in the room. But that's it. Ah well Beth, you always know how to handle these things.
You know that someone truly cares when they brick you like that. -AZ
ShadowLight
Otaku Eternal | Posted 06/10/09 | Reply
Wow, how rude this person was from the very begining.
Well, in my case when I mentioned on my last comment that I try to help you guys, I meant little things that happens to me specifically ( I've been harassed and falsely accused from various stuff around here and my own art has been stolen a few times), instead of running to you guys, I solve them with the person in a very modest and respectful way ( when most of the times doesn't happen with the person I am trying to solve with) or when emotions gets over board or even offensive at the community chat when you guys are not around.
So I do believe what I've done and do is not considered as backseat moderating? Please enlight me if its so. ^_^
As for the member rudeness itself, I do hope with being banned part help them understand that behaving in such manner or false accusing members without enough proof to support it, usually is not the way to go.
Last edited by ShadowLight at 12:24:05 PM EDT on June 10, 2009.
The crazy bubbly shadow
kittens 3
The Stalker (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 06/10/09 | Reply
I do have a question though.
When your in the chatroom, you're allowed to moderate your own room and stuff, but what if your in the lobby without any moderaters or maybe in someone else's room with no mods or room owners?
For most things, we should just report it with a chat log, right? What if its not that bad, but they are being a little too rough, like i've had people make fun of me on there, but it wasnt for very long, and so i didnt think that i should send that, and i should just take care of it myself. Was that the right thing to do or should i just send the log to a mod?
Just curious.
Last edited by kittens 3 at 11:12:59 AM EDT on June 10, 2009.
Nathan
Good Old Reliable | Posted 06/10/09 | Reply
Can we say uptight and overzealous? Also, I found the generalization that the people who use quotes and don't cite the source were 'worthless little children degrading the work of others' painfully stupid.
And to top it off, they didn't even have it right when it came to where the quote came from. o_O I honestly hope you banned them for that self righteous crap they were doing to other members.
Maybe that will give them the wake up call they seem to need, and they'll lighten up and stop being so anal about stuff that isn't even their job to deal with.