It is really difficult because you have to speak in certain words that easily communicate a certain view for the reader rather than some other thing. If you leave out too much then the reader will interpret the character perhaps in a way you didn't intend which will happen anyways..but yeah...writing is super difficult. ;m; Like how do you make a character likeable without saying 'hey this person is cool' because it's easy to make nice guys or interesting character nice to where they are annoying or interesting to where they are almost too interesting that it seems fake.
I think everyone really does deal with this. A lot of movie directors I hear about are totally okay with critiques but when there is that one person who gets what they are trying to convey it's like they are on cloud nine. It's really difficult to express your feelings in general which is why I like creative fields because it gets at complicated human feelings that are difficult to explain in a way that everyone can understand.
I don't think gender and orientation is completely time oriented. It's been an issue for centuries but recently its become something that is discussed more and more. I am thinking of fairly good movie called Stage Beauty which discusses gender in 17th century plays. The guy's part was really well done so I recommend it for inspiration purposes maybe (and just 'cause he was so freaking good). It didn't really say much about gender today and more like this is a guy who doesn't know who he is or what gender to play.
Although different gender orientations are more and more accepted today that doesn't mean the individual accepts or understands themselves. Like Laf might think of themself as a certain orientation, but what evidence makes them so sure of themself? I think coming to these decisions is still a complicated adventure that is relatable to everyone because everyone still wants to find out about themselves.
Laf can struggle with defining themself and also figuring out their feelings about their friend. Like maybe the guy friend is all like 'I like you for some reason but I don't think I like guys' and Laf is all like 'Bruh I'm not a guy' or something. Both of them trying to figure out their feelings mutually.
Maybe the issues might also be deciding who the main character is. This is something I sometimes think about with stories. Maybe another character is a stronger fit for the lead. In the end, for me at least, I usually end up with the same main character but I know why I chose them better and how they would manipulate the story better than the other character.
Take out things and switch them around and look at it and think whether the theme is strengthened or weakened by that choice.
Yeah, I feel that... It's a little inevitable because everyone's going to interpret a piece of writing a little differently. For me, the goal in becoming a "good writer" is closing that gap between writer and reader, where a writer can get their readers to easily understand what they want to convey without the piece sounding clunky. But it's really a difficult goal for anyone who writes, and idk if anyone can ever fully get there.
Aaah, yeah, trying to bring different perspectives on controversial topics seems really difficult in writing.... especially because many people are so attached to their opinions on topics that it colors the scenes in a way that you may not have even hinted at. I guess in cases like these we have to be extra attentive to the fact that things could be interpreted that way. ;u;7
Sorry to hear you had to change your story so much! :c It's really hard to change things when you like them a particular way, huh... though sometimes changing things can be for the better, idk.
Yeah, that's how I feel, there's a lot more to coming out than just bullying. There's whatever the character's feeling and how the characters around them are feeling, and idk just a whole ton of other stuff...
Doing themes that are timeless is a good idea. :0 The trouble is just trying to work with orientation and gender and finding a way to come up with themes that are timeless surrounding such time-dependent topics...
And for me, I really do agree with "following the characters" in stories because characters are what really do drive the plots in fiction--like, the characters and how they react to things are the plot.
You actually hit it pretty close with what I really want to talk about with Lafayette and Dmitri with the whole "boundary between love and friendship" thing! xD It's just I feel like I could talk about that without talking about Laf's gender, so should I really mention it at all.......... "orz But at the same time, it really is Laf's gender that drives the "romantic/platonic tension" between Dmitri and Laf (in Laf's mind at least).
It's okay, I love long comments!! As you probably know, haha. xD This is all really helpful, though, I'll try to think harder on what I'm trying to convey in my story and also what are the ways that I can convey it. -n-/ (<<I want to put a proud/determined face, but idk how to do it...))
Last edited by moonlit dream at 10:44:21 PM EDT on June 25, 2016.
I totally understand how you feel! I am sorta in like the same spot right now with a story I am writing as well. Like for me I got really nice feedback for mine, but something about the other people reading it it's like they didn't get what I was going for totally...
For mine one of the male characters was supposed to act like a jerk to the girl who likes him, but she still likes him in the end, just to show how stupid people can be in romantic relationships and to exaggerate shoujo manga tropes. I showed it to my friend and she said it was all good except that she was very offended by that part and doesn't support abusive relationships. Not exactly where I was going with that...I mean peeps get into abusive relationships and think they are in love with eachother still...Sorta what I was going for..
But I decided to take that out and make all the characters strong and lovable in their own ways (if you approach it from their perspective) where all do good and bad and I think that made it stronger...but then I rewrote it and all the silly funness died...;m;
It's nice to receive critiques but it's frustrating trying to fix the story based on those critiques.
With the whole bullying thing I totally understand where you are coming from on that. I feel like the coming out stuff is interesting because it's high drama, but there can also be other dramas coming from certain sexual relationships. Like maybe they have come out and are open about it but have doubts or don't feel like themselves in some way and need to come to terms with whatever the label they just labeled themselves with means or something?
When it comes to themes I have found it easiest to ignore any of this keeping up to date thing and just say something that works for any time period and even people who aren't directly affected by a scenario. Like I could write about the feelings of somebody coming out which is interesting on a human level, but how relatable is it to somebody who never had that problem?
I dunno who said or where I heard it from...but I heard that you should not write stories to argue a point, but write stories that follow the characters. I like to write stories that argue points anyways (but hide in a way where it looks like I am not). Like maybe you focus on Lafayette's reaction to his friend having a crush on him and although it seems to talk about gender, it is actually just talking about what it means to love somebody and that love is complicated because there isn't really a line of platonic and romantic love.
Or something...I dunno I am brainstorming outloud...;orz Sorry for such a long comment...;orz
Wakusei Aoshi
Otaku Eternal | Posted 06/26/16 | Reply
@moonlit dream:
I feel exactly the same way.
It is really difficult because you have to speak in certain words that easily communicate a certain view for the reader rather than some other thing. If you leave out too much then the reader will interpret the character perhaps in a way you didn't intend which will happen anyways..but yeah...writing is super difficult. ;m; Like how do you make a character likeable without saying 'hey this person is cool' because it's easy to make nice guys or interesting character nice to where they are annoying or interesting to where they are almost too interesting that it seems fake.
I think everyone really does deal with this. A lot of movie directors I hear about are totally okay with critiques but when there is that one person who gets what they are trying to convey it's like they are on cloud nine. It's really difficult to express your feelings in general which is why I like creative fields because it gets at complicated human feelings that are difficult to explain in a way that everyone can understand.
I don't think gender and orientation is completely time oriented. It's been an issue for centuries but recently its become something that is discussed more and more. I am thinking of fairly good movie called Stage Beauty which discusses gender in 17th century plays. The guy's part was really well done so I recommend it for inspiration purposes maybe (and just 'cause he was so freaking good). It didn't really say much about gender today and more like this is a guy who doesn't know who he is or what gender to play.
Although different gender orientations are more and more accepted today that doesn't mean the individual accepts or understands themselves. Like Laf might think of themself as a certain orientation, but what evidence makes them so sure of themself? I think coming to these decisions is still a complicated adventure that is relatable to everyone because everyone still wants to find out about themselves.
Laf can struggle with defining themself and also figuring out their feelings about their friend. Like maybe the guy friend is all like 'I like you for some reason but I don't think I like guys' and Laf is all like 'Bruh I'm not a guy' or something. Both of them trying to figure out their feelings mutually.
Maybe the issues might also be deciding who the main character is. This is something I sometimes think about with stories. Maybe another character is a stronger fit for the lead. In the end, for me at least, I usually end up with the same main character but I know why I chose them better and how they would manipulate the story better than the other character.
Take out things and switch them around and look at it and think whether the theme is strengthened or weakened by that choice.
moonlit dream
Supreme Individual (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 06/25/16 | Reply
@Wakusei Aoshi:
Yeah, I feel that... It's a little inevitable because everyone's going to interpret a piece of writing a little differently. For me, the goal in becoming a "good writer" is closing that gap between writer and reader, where a writer can get their readers to easily understand what they want to convey without the piece sounding clunky. But it's really a difficult goal for anyone who writes, and idk if anyone can ever fully get there.
Aaah, yeah, trying to bring different perspectives on controversial topics seems really difficult in writing.... especially because many people are so attached to their opinions on topics that it colors the scenes in a way that you may not have even hinted at. I guess in cases like these we have to be extra attentive to the fact that things could be interpreted that way. ;u;7
Sorry to hear you had to change your story so much! :c It's really hard to change things when you like them a particular way, huh... though sometimes changing things can be for the better, idk.
Yeah, that's how I feel, there's a lot more to coming out than just bullying. There's whatever the character's feeling and how the characters around them are feeling, and idk just a whole ton of other stuff...
Doing themes that are timeless is a good idea. :0 The trouble is just trying to work with orientation and gender and finding a way to come up with themes that are timeless surrounding such time-dependent topics...
And for me, I really do agree with "following the characters" in stories because characters are what really do drive the plots in fiction--like, the characters and how they react to things are the plot.
You actually hit it pretty close with what I really want to talk about with Lafayette and Dmitri with the whole "boundary between love and friendship" thing! xD It's just I feel like I could talk about that without talking about Laf's gender, so should I really mention it at all.......... "orz But at the same time, it really is Laf's gender that drives the "romantic/platonic tension" between Dmitri and Laf (in Laf's mind at least).
It's okay, I love long comments!! As you probably know, haha. xD This is all really helpful, though, I'll try to think harder on what I'm trying to convey in my story and also what are the ways that I can convey it. -n-/ (<<I want to put a proud/determined face, but idk how to do it...))
Last edited by moonlit dream at 10:44:21 PM EDT on June 25, 2016.
Wakusei Aoshi
Otaku Eternal | Posted 06/23/16 | Reply
I totally understand how you feel! I am sorta in like the same spot right now with a story I am writing as well. Like for me I got really nice feedback for mine, but something about the other people reading it it's like they didn't get what I was going for totally...
For mine one of the male characters was supposed to act like a jerk to the girl who likes him, but she still likes him in the end, just to show how stupid people can be in romantic relationships and to exaggerate shoujo manga tropes. I showed it to my friend and she said it was all good except that she was very offended by that part and doesn't support abusive relationships. Not exactly where I was going with that...I mean peeps get into abusive relationships and think they are in love with eachother still...Sorta what I was going for..
But I decided to take that out and make all the characters strong and lovable in their own ways (if you approach it from their perspective) where all do good and bad and I think that made it stronger...but then I rewrote it and all the silly funness died...;m;
It's nice to receive critiques but it's frustrating trying to fix the story based on those critiques.
With the whole bullying thing I totally understand where you are coming from on that. I feel like the coming out stuff is interesting because it's high drama, but there can also be other dramas coming from certain sexual relationships. Like maybe they have come out and are open about it but have doubts or don't feel like themselves in some way and need to come to terms with whatever the label they just labeled themselves with means or something?
When it comes to themes I have found it easiest to ignore any of this keeping up to date thing and just say something that works for any time period and even people who aren't directly affected by a scenario. Like I could write about the feelings of somebody coming out which is interesting on a human level, but how relatable is it to somebody who never had that problem?
I dunno who said or where I heard it from...but I heard that you should not write stories to argue a point, but write stories that follow the characters. I like to write stories that argue points anyways (but hide in a way where it looks like I am not). Like maybe you focus on Lafayette's reaction to his friend having a crush on him and although it seems to talk about gender, it is actually just talking about what it means to love somebody and that love is complicated because there isn't really a line of platonic and romantic love.
Or something...I dunno I am brainstorming outloud...;orz Sorry for such a long comment...;orz