The first time I ever actually tried to draw I drew a picture of Anita from Read or Die: TV. Straight off of the DVD box. I kept copying things for a while then I started drawing my own stuff about my favorite characters. Now, almost EVERYTHING I draw is original. Of course it's not that good and I'd never try to sell it at a con but I'm just saying I think that's a perfectly fine way to get started.
I really liked your examples of original art. The LOTR one was wicked awesome. Plus, I think I'd like to make a Kirby hat....not to sell of course, but for me to wear. (>^-^)> Go Kirby!!
Sorry...
Anyway, I really liked this essay and I learned a lot. Thanks!
To tell you the truth, I actually own that volume. For some reason we've been receiving at my house, and when I saw the cover, I immediately stole it from the mail pile. And, of course, it's now lost in the abyss of my room.
It's really a good article on the issue, and I really need to look for it again.
I've known some artists who can do amazing fan art, but when I've tried to commission them to do an original character, they struggle with it and just can't seem to get it down. I get that some people just can't seem to handle original characters, but that doesn't give them the right to make all of their money on mass production of fanart pieces. =)
Thanks for the commentary! And good luck on your creations. It's hard at first, but soon you'll see it's more fun that way!
I'd suggest trying to get a hold of this issue of Wired magazine, which has a great article about doujinshi, the legality of it in Japan, and how the Japanese countries have reacted to it. Its kind of like it is with fan art here. The companies look the other way, because overall it doesn't compete with legitimate product, helps the industry see what is popular, and increases the popularity of some titles.
Great article Roku, glad to see you posting here!
... What I want to find, is a good set of rules for what is parody (and therefor a copyright infringement defense) and what is just funny. I took a class on copyright, and was simply more confuse by it than when I went in.
Baron Von Kumichou (Founder) | Posted 03/28/08 | Reply
I always tell people that fan art is the single best way to build an audience online for your artwork, so as a promotional tool I think it's amazing--which is why theOtaku is HUGE in fan art--but once you've built that audience then you should begin creating your own characters.
In terms of making money, you always want to pursue the most sustainable, long-term options--so yeah, fan art probably isn't the best route for that...
I think I only see fan manga at cons, But I usually dont go for fan art unless a friend wants me to pick them up a specific piece, but I still get some. When I go to a con I mostly look for something that looks cool, and then I will buy it. I am not really picky at all.
I know this comment is a little late ^^"
Oh isnt our weather just grand? when it's 36 out it feels like 70 degrees out. by the time it gets to 70 the next day it snows -_-"
But what I see is the lack of security at a few cons.
I feel so bad for you that you were singled out and no one defended you!
Well I hope you have a good day! :>
You know that someone truly cares when they brick you like that. -AZ
wow, u've been a huge inspiration to, well, not stop my fancomics/fanart, but to at least work more strongly on my original artwork. tho i do find it strangely hilarious that in japan, doujinshi comics are readily sold and no one really makes a fuss about them, i mean, that's how CLAMP started off! (i'm not stating that to say that what ur saying is wrong, only to state how ironic it is for two countries to act completely different!)
o, and as for that guy, if u happen to know what he looks like, i'd really want to punch his god...you know, face. ur a much better person than i could ever be, cause i would've killed his freaking butt. so i commend you for that and give u a pat on the back. i hope ur artwork goes well!!
You know, I make it a point never to hold anything against people. I got my start doing fan work, but I've always done original work as well. Each person is entitled to their opinions, you know? =)
i kinda agree with you. i personally try not to directly copy a picture but look at a bunch of pictures to get what i need for the picture*coughcoughkurofaicoughsputter*. i'm always worried about plagarism and stuff because it is actually a really serious crime. i am currently putting a picture from Tsubasa on a sweatshirt of mine but i plan on putting a little thingy at the bottom with copyright clapm or some such. i really think that people should give credit to the artist for using their characters. i've found that here people are usually good about giving credit. just everyone make sure you are giving credit!!
i thought this was a really great article and that you raised a very legitimatepoint that everyone needs to consider. i'm not anti fanart 'cause fanart rocks. keep up the good work!!
Waaah, you're so much better at fanart than I'll ever be; I've got some stuff here on this site, but that's it (and a couple pieces I did long ago as requests for friends.) Your FMAngel pic was nice and the Brokeback Mt. Doom is another funny one of yours.
It's very hard to call Fan Art "wrong" in any sort of context. Conversely, it's very hard to call it "right". Note that there is some slippage between rule 1. and rule 2. Crediting the originator of the work has its merits, and producing the work singly (rather than 50 Naruto pics) does make sense; however, here is where the uncertain gray area shows its manifold shades. If one fanart is sold by one person, and another single fanart is sold by a separate person, the total of all those singles may very well add up to a considerable sum, thus leaving the question of mass fanart being sold passed over in unintentional silence. The "problem" still remains, but in an unnoticed form.
But I do not want to get into legalities and such, for that would end up with the grayest of debates, when the solution may require a pretty shade of red! I think that you offer very suitable alternatives to fanart, while maintaining that fanart production is of primary importance to those who are learning the style. Yoshiyuki Sadamoto and the art of CLAMP were my mentors (and still are).
I agree, artists ~should~ be able to draw what they like. It's the ~selling~ and making money aspect of this side that is still illegal, no matter how much you sugar coat it. You know? It sucks, sure. Don't get me wrong. I'm focusing more on the mass-production of things than the individual art. Remember, I did say that if you do a single piece it's not a big deal. It's if you make 200 and sell them that it's ethically a boo boo.
The thing about doujinshi is that they are pretty a purely japanese side of the argument. The laws are a little different in Japan, but trust me doujin are very illegal here if they are created and sold in the states.
The thing everyone has to remember is that the odds of a company coming after you for this are pretty slim. So despite ~my~ opinion, you're probably safe ^_^
I'm an artist, and a casual blogger. I'm not from a magazine, nor do I attempt to even pass myself off as anything other than what I am. I'm just an experienced veteran of Artist Alleys and conventions, and an internationally published artist. I won't pretend. So you're probably right about the fact that this may sound dumb to some folks. But I always incorporate humor. It's my way. I'm not going for editorial style stuff here, but thank you for the comments and I'll try not to make it so obvious in the future. =)
We are all entitled to our opinions, and thanks for sharing yours. =) Again, just opinions nothing more.
Personally, I think you should be able to draw what you want though you should be creative about it. I'm sure many manga-ka's know that people draw their works since they have said themselves have drawn fanart. Really, if you waim to make a lot of money at the artist alley, you should draw what people like. And mostly, people like this manga or anime over original. But I still say, make sure you have an equal amount of original and fanarts when selling prints.
:D
Honestly. I think your article was terrible.
Although you have a point in copy right infringement, I didn't like how you had a wikipedia article in the very beginning of the article itself. That made me cringe with the inaccuracies that this could contain, because not only is Wiki the most unreliable source for anything, seeing as how anyone and everyone can change it, I think that just about anyone reading this would know what fanart really is.
I looked at the artwork you put into the links, and I didn't honestly see anything different than what people are drawing now. Nothing at all made it unique to me. It was just him standing there, with wings, the wings being the only difference. Sure he had his casting circle, but that's pretty standard in most Fullmetal Alchemist fan art. You basically drew what you were warning against and showing it as an example of what to do.
Otherwise, you made some strong points, but they were brought down by unwitty humor. Although you probably meant this to be nothing major really, I hate it when people put things up like this, and don't take the time to research or really provide facts that aren't personally biased.
This isn't hatemail, it's criticism. If you can't take it, don't write things, don't produce art, and don't live in general. You saying "please don't send me hatemail" at the beginning is just saying "I can't take your criticism, please be nice to me." I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just being honest and upfront. Only with criticism do people improve, but judging from the fact that you are many years beyond my mere 18, you probably know this already.
Overall, great points, you got your message across I believe. But it's just not well written. Provide better examples and such...
ShikamaruRocks
Otaku Legend | Posted 04/05/08 | Reply
The first time I ever actually tried to draw I drew a picture of Anita from Read or Die: TV. Straight off of the DVD box. I kept copying things for a while then I started drawing my own stuff about my favorite characters. Now, almost EVERYTHING I draw is original. Of course it's not that good and I'd never try to sell it at a con but I'm just saying I think that's a perfectly fine way to get started.
I really liked your examples of original art. The LOTR one was wicked awesome. Plus, I think I'd like to make a Kirby hat....not to sell of course, but for me to wear. (>^-^)> Go Kirby!!
Sorry...
Anyway, I really liked this essay and I learned a lot. Thanks!
mewmewpudding
Otaku Eternal | Posted 03/31/08 | Reply
@CassieR:
To tell you the truth, I actually own that volume. For some reason we've been receiving at my house, and when I saw the cover, I immediately stole it from the mail pile. And, of course, it's now lost in the abyss of my room.
It's really a good article on the issue, and I really need to look for it again.
*goes to do some cleaning*
Rokuchan
Otakuite | Posted 03/29/08 | Reply
@:
I've known some artists who can do amazing fan art, but when I've tried to commission them to do an original character, they struggle with it and just can't seem to get it down. I get that some people just can't seem to handle original characters, but that doesn't give them the right to make all of their money on mass production of fanart pieces. =)
Thanks for the commentary! And good luck on your creations. It's hard at first, but soon you'll see it's more fun that way!
CassieR
Otakuite+ | Posted 03/28/08 | Reply
@:
I'd suggest trying to get a hold of this issue of Wired magazine, which has a great article about doujinshi, the legality of it in Japan, and how the Japanese countries have reacted to it. Its kind of like it is with fan art here. The companies look the other way, because overall it doesn't compete with legitimate product, helps the industry see what is popular, and increases the popularity of some titles.
Great article Roku, glad to see you posting here!
... What I want to find, is a good set of rules for what is parody (and therefor a copyright infringement defense) and what is just funny. I took a class on copyright, and was simply more confuse by it than when I went in.
Adam
Baron Von Kumichou (Founder) | Posted 03/28/08 | Reply
I always tell people that fan art is the single best way to build an audience online for your artwork, so as a promotional tool I think it's amazing--which is why theOtaku is HUGE in fan art--but once you've built that audience then you should begin creating your own characters.
In terms of making money, you always want to pursue the most sustainable, long-term options--so yeah, fan art probably isn't the best route for that...
Hiko
Otaku Eternal | Posted 03/27/08 | Reply
I think I only see fan manga at cons, But I usually dont go for fan art unless a friend wants me to pick them up a specific piece, but I still get some. When I go to a con I mostly look for something that looks cool, and then I will buy it. I am not really picky at all.
I know this comment is a little late ^^"
Oh isnt our weather just grand? when it's 36 out it feels like 70 degrees out. by the time it gets to 70 the next day it snows -_-"
But what I see is the lack of security at a few cons.
I feel so bad for you that you were singled out and no one defended you!
Well I hope you have a good day! :>
You know that someone truly cares when they brick you like that. -AZ
haseo luver92
Otaku Legend | Posted 03/27/08 | Reply
wow, u've been a huge inspiration to, well, not stop my fancomics/fanart, but to at least work more strongly on my original artwork. tho i do find it strangely hilarious that in japan, doujinshi comics are readily sold and no one really makes a fuss about them, i mean, that's how CLAMP started off! (i'm not stating that to say that what ur saying is wrong, only to state how ironic it is for two countries to act completely different!)
o, and as for that guy, if u happen to know what he looks like, i'd really want to punch his god...you know, face. ur a much better person than i could ever be, cause i would've killed his freaking butt. so i commend you for that and give u a pat on the back. i hope ur artwork goes well!!
best of luck
haseo
Rokuchan
Otakuite | Posted 03/27/08 | Reply
@Aethelwynne:
Thank you for your comments!
And thank you to everyone who has commented thus far, both the good and the bad. I love hearing counter points too! =)
Rokuchan
Otakuite | Posted 03/27/08 | Reply
@:
Thank you for the comments =)
You know, I make it a point never to hold anything against people. I got my start doing fan work, but I've always done original work as well. Each person is entitled to their opinions, you know? =)
Thanks a bunch ;)
Aethelwynne
Senior Otaku | Posted 03/27/08 | Reply
i kinda agree with you. i personally try not to directly copy a picture but look at a bunch of pictures to get what i need for the picture*coughcoughkurofaicoughsputter*. i'm always worried about plagarism and stuff because it is actually a really serious crime. i am currently putting a picture from Tsubasa on a sweatshirt of mine but i plan on putting a little thingy at the bottom with copyright clapm or some such. i really think that people should give credit to the artist for using their characters. i've found that here people are usually good about giving credit. just everyone make sure you are giving credit!!
i thought this was a really great article and that you raised a very legitimatepoint that everyone needs to consider. i'm not anti fanart 'cause fanart rocks. keep up the good work!!
cougarsama
LDS Fangirl! (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/27/08 | Reply
Waaah, you're so much better at fanart than I'll ever be; I've got some stuff here on this site, but that's it (and a couple pieces I did long ago as requests for friends.) Your FMAngel pic was nice and the Brokeback Mt. Doom is another funny one of yours.
Pleiades Rising
Otaku Idol (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/27/08 | Reply
It's very hard to call Fan Art "wrong" in any sort of context. Conversely, it's very hard to call it "right". Note that there is some slippage between rule 1. and rule 2. Crediting the originator of the work has its merits, and producing the work singly (rather than 50 Naruto pics) does make sense; however, here is where the uncertain gray area shows its manifold shades. If one fanart is sold by one person, and another single fanart is sold by a separate person, the total of all those singles may very well add up to a considerable sum, thus leaving the question of mass fanart being sold passed over in unintentional silence. The "problem" still remains, but in an unnoticed form.
But I do not want to get into legalities and such, for that would end up with the grayest of debates, when the solution may require a pretty shade of red! I think that you offer very suitable alternatives to fanart, while maintaining that fanart production is of primary importance to those who are learning the style. Yoshiyuki Sadamoto and the art of CLAMP were my mentors (and still are).
Rokuchan
Otakuite | Posted 03/27/08 | Reply
@jeweloflife:
I agree, artists ~should~ be able to draw what they like. It's the ~selling~ and making money aspect of this side that is still illegal, no matter how much you sugar coat it. You know? It sucks, sure. Don't get me wrong. I'm focusing more on the mass-production of things than the individual art. Remember, I did say that if you do a single piece it's not a big deal. It's if you make 200 and sell them that it's ethically a boo boo.
Thanks for commenting!
Rokuchan
Otakuite | Posted 03/27/08 | Reply
@:
The thing about doujinshi is that they are pretty a purely japanese side of the argument. The laws are a little different in Japan, but trust me doujin are very illegal here if they are created and sold in the states.
The thing everyone has to remember is that the odds of a company coming after you for this are pretty slim. So despite ~my~ opinion, you're probably safe ^_^
Thanks for the links! I'll check them out asap.
Rokuchan
Otakuite | Posted 03/27/08 | Reply
@Purgatory:
Actually I won't argue with you at all. =)
I'm an artist, and a casual blogger. I'm not from a magazine, nor do I attempt to even pass myself off as anything other than what I am. I'm just an experienced veteran of Artist Alleys and conventions, and an internationally published artist. I won't pretend. So you're probably right about the fact that this may sound dumb to some folks. But I always incorporate humor. It's my way. I'm not going for editorial style stuff here, but thank you for the comments and I'll try not to make it so obvious in the future. =)
We are all entitled to our opinions, and thanks for sharing yours. =) Again, just opinions nothing more.
jeweloflife
Afrofantastic (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/27/08 | Reply
Personally, I think you should be able to draw what you want though you should be creative about it. I'm sure many manga-ka's know that people draw their works since they have said themselves have drawn fanart. Really, if you waim to make a lot of money at the artist alley, you should draw what people like. And mostly, people like this manga or anime over original. But I still say, make sure you have an equal amount of original and fanarts when selling prints.
:D
Purgatory
Otaku Legend | Posted 03/27/08 | Reply
Honestly. I think your article was terrible.
Although you have a point in copy right infringement, I didn't like how you had a wikipedia article in the very beginning of the article itself. That made me cringe with the inaccuracies that this could contain, because not only is Wiki the most unreliable source for anything, seeing as how anyone and everyone can change it, I think that just about anyone reading this would know what fanart really is.
I looked at the artwork you put into the links, and I didn't honestly see anything different than what people are drawing now. Nothing at all made it unique to me. It was just him standing there, with wings, the wings being the only difference. Sure he had his casting circle, but that's pretty standard in most Fullmetal Alchemist fan art. You basically drew what you were warning against and showing it as an example of what to do.
Otherwise, you made some strong points, but they were brought down by unwitty humor. Although you probably meant this to be nothing major really, I hate it when people put things up like this, and don't take the time to research or really provide facts that aren't personally biased.
This isn't hatemail, it's criticism. If you can't take it, don't write things, don't produce art, and don't live in general. You saying "please don't send me hatemail" at the beginning is just saying "I can't take your criticism, please be nice to me." I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just being honest and upfront. Only with criticism do people improve, but judging from the fact that you are many years beyond my mere 18, you probably know this already.
Overall, great points, you got your message across I believe. But it's just not well written. Provide better examples and such...