Dr. Mama Cat. (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/28/08 | Reply
You and I already discussed this via chat so I won't bother to go into the details again. I do agree that's important to make sure people know what you really think, after all, assumptions like that only lead to rumors that cause nothing but grief in the long run.
Ironically, I agree with you. But then you helped me transition from windows ME to windows XP. And now to Vista. I shudder to think of how much my computer would be annoying the hell out of me if I hadn't made that change.
And SomeGuy is right, I imagine there is nothing here that can't be improved on. I would also imagine that the change opened up doors and opportunities that were not available with myOtaku. I think Rach is correct in that none of these kids here have one clue as to what really goes into something like this.
I know I have no clue so I prefer to avoid whining since I hate looking like an ignorant fool. If I knew more I might say something, but in all honesty, I'm fine with how things are set up.
Red Monkey (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/26/08 | Reply
That was rude of whomever to behave like that. I’m not entirely sure what happened, but still. ^_^;
Adam really out did himself with Version Vibrant. I can’t really bring myself to complain about MyOtaku because he kept it. From my understanding he didn’t have to do it, but he devoted time and effort into keeping MyO up and running. I can understand why people would be hurt, I am too, but like some have already said change can be a good thing too. It means that the site is flourishing. Since I’m horrible when it comes to conveying my thoughts into words, I’ll just leave it at that. You mainly summed up how I feel on the matter.
And when I mentioned Adam, what I mean to say is that I’m grateful for everyone who dedicated their free-time into making the site into what it is today.
I agree, good things can come from this. That site you had listed was a fine example. I think Fan Words is a good sign too; more people are going to be inspired to write. I only had time to read a few, but they were fantastic.
I hate to say it, but I’ve seen some of what you are talking about. >_> I’m sorry you did too. I had originally planned on ignoring it since people are just stupid when it comes to making assumptions. Sadly.
Personally I think a lot of people aren’t giving this place a serious try. That they are too worried by what they feel was left behind. Instead of giving things time to take off. But that’s based on the comments I’ve seen over at myOatku.
Honestly, like Allamorph said, they’ve moved into the museum and now they’re freaking instead of giving it time to get settled into place. I also think that not one of these kids have a clue as to what really goes into running a place like this.
I mean coding, programming, web issues, compatibility, cost… the list goes on and on. It reminds me of attending a concert. People are so critical of the things that are off and yet they are utterly clueless as to just what goes into producing one in the first place.
That more than anything keeps me from feeling restricted, because I know damn well that my understanding of the money, time and work that must go into any website is limited. So really, in that light, complaining needs to be restrained or rather limited to avoid being an ass.
>_> Giving you grief is just stupid really, and shows a distinct lack of maturity. Like you said, you volunteer your time for free. So yeah. I’m sorry you had to deal with that.
I'm kind of on the outside looking in since I'm a new member here. So It's really hard to see the change that others are talking about since I never was a member of this myOtaku I've heard references too.
I do know one thing, change is a good thing, our world is constantly moving through it. It's not always clear if that change is good or not, but it's better to be positive as much as possible. ^_^ After all, being negative can be tiring and draining and in the long run, it's too frustrating.
I try to avoid that unless I really feel like something could have been differently. But even with what I've read, I can't go further than agreeing that it was rude to talk about you and to voice opinions that were not your own. No matter what the situation, spreading hateful gossip like that is not necessary.
As for this being a step backwards... well I honestly don't know the difference between the systems. I am not a programmer or webmaster and know next to nothing about how things work. So a complaint from me would be an ignorant one and I hate voicing an opinion only to later learn that my stance was on a ground that was incorrect to begin with.
If that even makes sense. Anyway, I am sorry that people were rude though. That's just not right really. Change or not, they shouldn't be taking their frustrations out on you.
Sadly I’ve lost most of my friends because I didn’t agree with them that Adam abandoned them. -_- It makes me sad since I like how things are moving forward and I find the changes exciting since like SomeGuy said “There’s nothing here that can’t be expanded/improved as time goes on”
I had to ask some of them to not pm me anymore since it turned into an outright verbal attack on me for having a different opinion. I mean, I like myOtaku, I met a lot of cool people and eventually moved over and joined OtakuBoards. I have a lot of good friends and I really like it.
I can understand that they are frustrated, but I still maintain, based on Adam’s comments about things, that myOtaku is horribly outdated. Like the difference between windows 95 and windows Vista. People aren’t seeing that by switching, even though we are at the bare minimum, the new system has the potential to do so much more.
I’m just glad there are members like ElvesAteMyRamen, who understand that even if I’m not as upset, it doesn’t mean I don’t care. She’s one of the few friends I still have besides you and the others.
Anyway, I know what you meant about people saying things about you, telling others you think stuff when they don’t know what you really think. I’ve had that happen too. And one of them is more than twice my age, so that immaturity on their part was very, very surprising… and sad.
*hugs* Don’t let it bother you, those of us who are your friends know you better than that.
Of all the big concerns about the changeover, the only one that I really feel for are the people who customized their myOs extensively and used HTML coding a lot. I used little of either save for embedding images and stuff for the most part, so the change wasn't too big of a worry for me.
As for the "myO is our home" type sentiment . . . it's still the same community, and we all still live in the same places as we ever did. As a writer, I fully embraced the sites closing the gap between the "official prestige page" and the "sister-blogging site". It was a point I made back when the original articles went down and several of the writers in turn set up that LJ community for anime writing. Really, the same could have been done on myO as well, but for all intents and purposes it would still be "just a blog" in the eyes of the rest of the world. When things are under the theOtaku.com banner as part of an established collection and such, it gives it all a sense of legitimacy in a way, and that's what I like about it. As such, I fully agree with your museum analogy.
I remember one person jokingly commented how fickle I was that I could drop my myO so quickly - what can I say, it's all the same community in the end; whether I talk to them here, back there or on MSN, as long as I know where to find 'em I'm happy. As for my 4 years of history with myO? Really, I registered for myO because it was advertised as the new addition to theOtaku way back when. For all intents and purposes, it was registration for theOtaku - again, same site, same community - just a few letters' difference in a URL.
And that's just the social side of things . . .
I didn't touch the coding and such for the site, but from what I understood, myO's coding is horribly inefficient, outdated, and convoluted. From a technical standpoint, it's the Quake 2 engine in a time where we have the Source engine (well . . . kinda). In terms of looks without major modification, it depends on whether you wanna see it as "conformity" (like most detractors) or "uniformity" (like Adam). Again, I can appreciate both sides of that.
The only other thing I can say about Version Vibrant is that it's less than a month old and there's nothing here that can't be expanded/improved as time goes on, so all the concerns about lost abilities or features are in the long run not worth being upset about.
And I'll leave it at that.
'Beth, you really explained this whole thing about as well as anyone could hope. I hope those unnamed ones take this to heart.
So, someone was talking about you on their posts or comment? That's immature. I may be an avid supporter of myO but I don't single out individuals and talk about them on my site unless I know it would be okay. I'd be ticked too if I were you since I have had people do similar things to me in the past and it upsets you when it happens.
You are right that it's good to try and look at the positive side of things. I know I tried to when this Worlds thing was launched and I know a lot of others were too. But then we tried it and many of us, didn't like it. I think change can be a great thing if applied correctly. I don't think it was done correctly in this situation. To completely change the blogging area which was a key feature on this site into something entirely different where everyone has to start over from scratch and also, are now limited to what they can do with customization, is a step backwards when we should be going forward.
I thought into this situation and it pretty much would be like this scenario: Let's say, Tom (the owner of mySpace) decided one day, "Hey members, I've come up with this new blogging area called mySpace Lands and once this update happens, ALL of you long-term members will now have to start all over again from scratch, re-find all your friends, and of yeah, html and all customization has been blocked." Would there and would there not be mass hysteria on mySpace? myOtaku is like a smaller version of mySpace and that's exactly what had happened. Of course, some people on mySpace wouldn't care if that happened, someone like me who is not an avid member, but to all those who worked so hard on their sites and it was like a 2nd home, would be very upset I would imagine.
If Adam had just put these new features onto myO rather then creating something totally new, people would be much happier and we wouldn't be seeing this happening to the extreme it is now. I totally agree with you that people shouldn't be fighting each other but when people get upset when someone says one thing that ticks off another, it's bound to happen.XD
Regardless, people shouldn't be going around nailing at individuals like the way you were. It's immature and not a good way to get your point across.
Madman With a Box (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/25/08 | Reply
People speaking for you without permission? Shame on them! D:
But seriously, you are right that change should be embraced and not thought of as bad or a threat (hopefully I didn't take you out of context ^^ ). It happens whether we like it or not. I find it much easier using the new Worlds system because it allows me to blod and itallycize text without having to time fiddly code around words and phrases, and makes adding links much easier too.
And to touch on something Allamorph just said, I believe inter-member communication on Worlds is actually much easier thanks to the comment reply system. Plus if anyone wants to chat with people outside of TheO, they can simply give them contact information or say "If you'd like to chat, ask for my AIM/YM/MSN."
And as you said, collaborative worlds like The Watercooler give us a new opportunity to strengthen that bond of community.
It may take some time to convince certain people, but VV is the renaissance this site needs.
I was just talking about this to Sabrina last night—the Worlds vs myOtaku thing, I mean, not you.
The problem, I think, comes both from a large sense of familiarity and intimacy with the myOtaku system and the history that those feelings generate, and a confusion over what exactly the Worlds function as.
Granted, the transition was far easier for me because I didn't bother to use myOtaku in the first place, but I did spend enough time exploring and browsing around that I was able to get a general sense of the place; and you already know how much empathy I attempt in these situations, so please hear me out before you discount my words.
Before Version Vibrant, myOtaku was largely separate from theOtaku, as I saw it. Thought the two sites were connected by a few doorways here and there, by and large members came to theOtaku get news or to submit fan-work and artistic endeavors, and they hung out at myOtaku; like a all-ages club next door to a museum, if you'll pardon the analogy.
To me, the World system feels as if the club has been moved inside the museum, so that the access to the artistic side is quicker and more fluid, but without losing most of the hangout possibilities. From a purely technical standpoint, the Worlds also made it easier to reincorporate the prose side of the artistic community by sheer virtue of being here already.
What the Worlds do not have (yet) is a means to see who is watching you. The Guestbook is gone (which admittedly bothers me very little; I used it once, I think), so people can't just stop by and drop a few words like they might have in the past. Communication is limited to comments and PMs and the exchange of IMing addresses—which is also no longer immediately available.
And again, I realize that I speak with very little personal experience with the system. That lack does not prevent me from trying to understand, though, or relating this situation to the times I have seen change nearly tear organizations to pieces....though the one that sticks predominately in my mind was destroying itself from the inside anyway, and I do not believe either site is in danger of that at the present.
But as I see it, the Worlds are myOtaku. The main difference is that Adam brought the two closer together with Version Vibrant, and it should feel rather strange to those people who have been using the old system for two, three, five, ten years. So I do not believe that myOtaku has been forgotten—just that it metamorphosed, and has now come out of its cocoon.
themakita
Otaku Legend | Posted 05/18/08 | Reply
@SunfallE:
NOOOOO! IT'S DISSAPEARING BEHIND THAT TAB! *JUMPS FOR IT AND MISSES* why?! whhhyyyyy!!!???? *falls down on knees*
SunfallE
Nyaa~ (ZE MEANIE) | Posted 05/18/08 | Reply
@themakita:
have you noticed that u have a cupcake by your name?
Yeah. o_O Looks kind of odd just sitting there.
In the name of the tune I will punish you!
themakita
Otaku Legend | Posted 05/18/08 | Reply
@SunfallE:
have you noticed that u have a cupcake by your name? i just wanna eat it...*drools*...unless it's yours...*still staring at cupcake*
themakita
Otaku Legend | Posted 05/18/08 | Reply
@SunfallE:
i mean, i was just too lazy to start it...i'm not very patient, unless i'm dealing w/ one of my friends....now thatcan be a hassle...
SunfallE
Nyaa~ (ZE MEANIE) | Posted 05/18/08 | Reply
@themakita:
...when i tried to read the full post...i fell backward after i saw how long it really was...
Yeah, I can be long winded at times. >_>
In the name of the tune I will punish you!
themakita
Otaku Legend | Posted 05/18/08 | Reply
...when i tried to read the full post...i fell backward after i saw how long it really was...>-
Indi
Dr. Mama Cat. (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/28/08 | Reply
You and I already discussed this via chat so I won't bother to go into the details again. I do agree that's important to make sure people know what you really think, after all, assumptions like that only lead to rumors that cause nothing but grief in the long run.
Ironically, I agree with you. But then you helped me transition from windows ME to windows XP. And now to Vista. I shudder to think of how much my computer would be annoying the hell out of me if I hadn't made that change.
And SomeGuy is right, I imagine there is nothing here that can't be improved on. I would also imagine that the change opened up doors and opportunities that were not available with myOtaku. I think Rach is correct in that none of these kids here have one clue as to what really goes into something like this.
I know I have no clue so I prefer to avoid whining since I hate looking like an ignorant fool. If I knew more I might say something, but in all honesty, I'm fine with how things are set up.
Anyway, see you around.
~Crystia
Enigmatic Turk
Red Monkey (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/26/08 | Reply
That was rude of whomever to behave like that. I’m not entirely sure what happened, but still. ^_^;
Adam really out did himself with Version Vibrant. I can’t really bring myself to complain about MyOtaku because he kept it. From my understanding he didn’t have to do it, but he devoted time and effort into keeping MyO up and running. I can understand why people would be hurt, I am too, but like some have already said change can be a good thing too. It means that the site is flourishing. Since I’m horrible when it comes to conveying my thoughts into words, I’ll just leave it at that. You mainly summed up how I feel on the matter.
And when I mentioned Adam, what I mean to say is that I’m grateful for everyone who dedicated their free-time into making the site into what it is today.
I agree, good things can come from this. That site you had listed was a fine example. I think Fan Words is a good sign too; more people are going to be inspired to write. I only had time to read a few, but they were fantastic.
Later Days
Isn't violence against hair a crime, Your Honor?
Rachmaninoff
Otaku Legend | Posted 03/26/08 | Reply
I hate to say it, but I’ve seen some of what you are talking about. >_> I’m sorry you did too. I had originally planned on ignoring it since people are just stupid when it comes to making assumptions. Sadly.
Personally I think a lot of people aren’t giving this place a serious try. That they are too worried by what they feel was left behind. Instead of giving things time to take off. But that’s based on the comments I’ve seen over at myOatku.
Honestly, like Allamorph said, they’ve moved into the museum and now they’re freaking instead of giving it time to get settled into place. I also think that not one of these kids have a clue as to what really goes into running a place like this.
I mean coding, programming, web issues, compatibility, cost… the list goes on and on. It reminds me of attending a concert. People are so critical of the things that are off and yet they are utterly clueless as to just what goes into producing one in the first place.
That more than anything keeps me from feeling restricted, because I know damn well that my understanding of the money, time and work that must go into any website is limited. So really, in that light, complaining needs to be restrained or rather limited to avoid being an ass.
>_> Giving you grief is just stupid really, and shows a distinct lack of maturity. Like you said, you volunteer your time for free. So yeah. I’m sorry you had to deal with that.
-Darren
Sabrina
Otaku Archangel | Posted 03/26/08 | Reply
I'm kind of on the outside looking in since I'm a new member here. So It's really hard to see the change that others are talking about since I never was a member of this myOtaku I've heard references too.
I do know one thing, change is a good thing, our world is constantly moving through it. It's not always clear if that change is good or not, but it's better to be positive as much as possible. ^_^ After all, being negative can be tiring and draining and in the long run, it's too frustrating.
I try to avoid that unless I really feel like something could have been differently. But even with what I've read, I can't go further than agreeing that it was rude to talk about you and to voice opinions that were not your own. No matter what the situation, spreading hateful gossip like that is not necessary.
As for this being a step backwards... well I honestly don't know the difference between the systems. I am not a programmer or webmaster and know next to nothing about how things work. So a complaint from me would be an ignorant one and I hate voicing an opinion only to later learn that my stance was on a ground that was incorrect to begin with.
If that even makes sense. Anyway, I am sorry that people were rude though. That's just not right really. Change or not, they shouldn't be taking their frustrations out on you.
-Sabrina
Aaryanna
Otaku Legend | Posted 03/25/08 | Reply
Sadly I’ve lost most of my friends because I didn’t agree with them that Adam abandoned them. -_- It makes me sad since I like how things are moving forward and I find the changes exciting since like SomeGuy said “There’s nothing here that can’t be expanded/improved as time goes on”
I had to ask some of them to not pm me anymore since it turned into an outright verbal attack on me for having a different opinion. I mean, I like myOtaku, I met a lot of cool people and eventually moved over and joined OtakuBoards. I have a lot of good friends and I really like it.
I can understand that they are frustrated, but I still maintain, based on Adam’s comments about things, that myOtaku is horribly outdated. Like the difference between windows 95 and windows Vista. People aren’t seeing that by switching, even though we are at the bare minimum, the new system has the potential to do so much more.
I’m just glad there are members like ElvesAteMyRamen, who understand that even if I’m not as upset, it doesn’t mean I don’t care. She’s one of the few friends I still have besides you and the others.
Anyway, I know what you meant about people saying things about you, telling others you think stuff when they don’t know what you really think. I’ve had that happen too. And one of them is more than twice my age, so that immaturity on their part was very, very surprising… and sad.
*hugs* Don’t let it bother you, those of us who are your friends know you better than that.
~*Aaryanna*~
bellpickle
Pickle of the Year (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/25/08 | Reply
Well, for the record, I am loving VV. Much thanks to all those who have helped make it what it is. ♥
SomeGuy
Canadian Liaison (Team) | Posted 03/25/08 | Reply
Have I told you lately that you're awesome?
Of all the big concerns about the changeover, the only one that I really feel for are the people who customized their myOs extensively and used HTML coding a lot. I used little of either save for embedding images and stuff for the most part, so the change wasn't too big of a worry for me.
As for the "myO is our home" type sentiment . . . it's still the same community, and we all still live in the same places as we ever did. As a writer, I fully embraced the sites closing the gap between the "official prestige page" and the "sister-blogging site". It was a point I made back when the original articles went down and several of the writers in turn set up that LJ community for anime writing. Really, the same could have been done on myO as well, but for all intents and purposes it would still be "just a blog" in the eyes of the rest of the world. When things are under the theOtaku.com banner as part of an established collection and such, it gives it all a sense of legitimacy in a way, and that's what I like about it. As such, I fully agree with your museum analogy.
I remember one person jokingly commented how fickle I was that I could drop my myO so quickly - what can I say, it's all the same community in the end; whether I talk to them here, back there or on MSN, as long as I know where to find 'em I'm happy. As for my 4 years of history with myO? Really, I registered for myO because it was advertised as the new addition to theOtaku way back when. For all intents and purposes, it was registration for theOtaku - again, same site, same community - just a few letters' difference in a URL.
And that's just the social side of things . . .
I didn't touch the coding and such for the site, but from what I understood, myO's coding is horribly inefficient, outdated, and convoluted. From a technical standpoint, it's the Quake 2 engine in a time where we have the Source engine (well . . . kinda). In terms of looks without major modification, it depends on whether you wanna see it as "conformity" (like most detractors) or "uniformity" (like Adam). Again, I can appreciate both sides of that.
The only other thing I can say about Version Vibrant is that it's less than a month old and there's nothing here that can't be expanded/improved as time goes on, so all the concerns about lost abilities or features are in the long run not worth being upset about.
And I'll leave it at that.
'Beth, you really explained this whole thing about as well as anyone could hope. I hope those unnamed ones take this to heart.
ElvesAteMyRamen
Otaku Eternal | Posted 03/25/08 | Reply
So, someone was talking about you on their posts or comment? That's immature. I may be an avid supporter of myO but I don't single out individuals and talk about them on my site unless I know it would be okay. I'd be ticked too if I were you since I have had people do similar things to me in the past and it upsets you when it happens.
You are right that it's good to try and look at the positive side of things. I know I tried to when this Worlds thing was launched and I know a lot of others were too. But then we tried it and many of us, didn't like it. I think change can be a great thing if applied correctly. I don't think it was done correctly in this situation. To completely change the blogging area which was a key feature on this site into something entirely different where everyone has to start over from scratch and also, are now limited to what they can do with customization, is a step backwards when we should be going forward.
I thought into this situation and it pretty much would be like this scenario: Let's say, Tom (the owner of mySpace) decided one day, "Hey members, I've come up with this new blogging area called mySpace Lands and once this update happens, ALL of you long-term members will now have to start all over again from scratch, re-find all your friends, and of yeah, html and all customization has been blocked." Would there and would there not be mass hysteria on mySpace? myOtaku is like a smaller version of mySpace and that's exactly what had happened. Of course, some people on mySpace wouldn't care if that happened, someone like me who is not an avid member, but to all those who worked so hard on their sites and it was like a 2nd home, would be very upset I would imagine.
If Adam had just put these new features onto myO rather then creating something totally new, people would be much happier and we wouldn't be seeing this happening to the extreme it is now. I totally agree with you that people shouldn't be fighting each other but when people get upset when someone says one thing that ticks off another, it's bound to happen.XD
Regardless, people shouldn't be going around nailing at individuals like the way you were. It's immature and not a good way to get your point across.
~*Elves
TimeChaser
Madman With a Box (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/25/08 | Reply
People speaking for you without permission? Shame on them! D:
But seriously, you are right that change should be embraced and not thought of as bad or a threat (hopefully I didn't take you out of context ^^ ). It happens whether we like it or not. I find it much easier using the new Worlds system because it allows me to blod and itallycize text without having to time fiddly code around words and phrases, and makes adding links much easier too.
And to touch on something Allamorph just said, I believe inter-member communication on Worlds is actually much easier thanks to the comment reply system. Plus if anyone wants to chat with people outside of TheO, they can simply give them contact information or say "If you'd like to chat, ask for my AIM/YM/MSN."
And as you said, collaborative worlds like The Watercooler give us a new opportunity to strengthen that bond of community.
It may take some time to convince certain people, but VV is the renaissance this site needs.
Bazinga!
Allamorph
Spiritus Memorae (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 03/25/08 | Reply
I was just talking about this to Sabrina last night—the Worlds vs myOtaku thing, I mean, not you.
The problem, I think, comes both from a large sense of familiarity and intimacy with the myOtaku system and the history that those feelings generate, and a confusion over what exactly the Worlds function as.
Granted, the transition was far easier for me because I didn't bother to use myOtaku in the first place, but I did spend enough time exploring and browsing around that I was able to get a general sense of the place; and you already know how much empathy I attempt in these situations, so please hear me out before you discount my words.
Before Version Vibrant, myOtaku was largely separate from theOtaku, as I saw it. Thought the two sites were connected by a few doorways here and there, by and large members came to theOtaku get news or to submit fan-work and artistic endeavors, and they hung out at myOtaku; like a all-ages club next door to a museum, if you'll pardon the analogy.
To me, the World system feels as if the club has been moved inside the museum, so that the access to the artistic side is quicker and more fluid, but without losing most of the hangout possibilities. From a purely technical standpoint, the Worlds also made it easier to reincorporate the prose side of the artistic community by sheer virtue of being here already.
What the Worlds do not have (yet) is a means to see who is watching you. The Guestbook is gone (which admittedly bothers me very little; I used it once, I think), so people can't just stop by and drop a few words like they might have in the past. Communication is limited to comments and PMs and the exchange of IMing addresses—which is also no longer immediately available.
And again, I realize that I speak with very little personal experience with the system. That lack does not prevent me from trying to understand, though, or relating this situation to the times I have seen change nearly tear organizations to pieces....though the one that sticks predominately in my mind was destroying itself from the inside anyway, and I do not believe either site is in danger of that at the present.
But as I see it, the Worlds are myOtaku. The main difference is that Adam brought the two closer together with Version Vibrant, and it should feel rather strange to those people who have been using the old system for two, three, five, ten years. So I do not believe that myOtaku has been forgotten—just that it metamorphosed, and has now come out of its cocoon.