On behalf of the rest of Canada, I am ashamed by what this individual has done and said.

Also, there is far more anime playing on television in the United States than there is in Canada right now (our original "dedicated timeslot" of Friday night has changed its line-up quite a bit). What does that say about this whole situation?

@Markus wolfe:

I’m going to be quite blunt in response to a few things you’ve said in here:

Bottom line is, foreign culture is never going to be mainstream, and neither should it be.

Bottom line is, you, and everyone else on the planet can’t predict whether or not something will change in that manner, so stop pretending you can see the future and stop telling others how you think it should be.

I prefer it as an underground thing anyways.

This isn’t about what you prefer; it’s about what people, as a whole, prefer in their entertainment. And if that includes making anime mainstream at some point in the future, so be it. That’s not my call or yours to make.

Most importantly though is this bit here:

Now shut your hole or get back on topic.

I don’t want to see that kind of outburst from you ever again. You are far from being an expert on these matters and I expect you to be more courteous to others when you reply in articles. I am quite serious. Behave.

SunfallE
theOtaku Staff

@Nehszriah:

Ay.....seems we've all lost track of the original topic.

Alright.

When I got in my word, it was saying that anime will never be accepted as true mainstream because it was foreign. Acceptance of any piece of foreign culture into mainstream would mean a flood of foreign culture, much of which is unwanted.

Then red tigress made a statement suggesting that this had already happened to some degree.

I then debunked her point with the specific examples she had used.

ryu6fw made a few points against my original statement.

I said that a America was a melting pot, foreign material is accepted but becomes American in the end.

ryu6fw and I had a little spat in which we both repeated ourselves.

Then YOU stated American and Canada are basically the same.

I rebuked you by pointing out that subtle differences exist because of the different immigration histories, and rudely asked you to get back on topic.

You pointed out I was being a tool, you were aware of the subtle differences, and that I should get back on topic.

I must say, if you really do watch the CBC (must live near the border, eh?) than you're probably far more aware of the differences than someone who doesn't. For example, an American may try to sound Canadian by using 'eh', but we can always see right through it. First of all, they usually sound too stupid because they say it too much and in inappropriate places (for those who don't know, 'eh' is usually equivalent to 'huh' or 'whuh') and second they always overemphasize it (it's almost impossible to deliberately use 'eh' without overemphasizing it.) But just between you and me, Some of these differences are so subtle that I, or even a longtime native, wouldn't be able to pick them out.

As for geek-movies doing well with non-geek audiences, I'm not surprised. Geek material is always awesome; if it wasn't nobody would be a geek about it. But this isn't going to change the fact that it's geeky, despite the dramatic increase in fanbase. Geek is not about the size of fanbase: it's about the material, the concepts, and basically how cool it is if you're not repelled by it. It's also about being different, and I suppose that means we are all geeks in some way.

And back to the topic of anime going mainstream: nuh-uh. Not gonna happen. It would open a gate out of which weird ass Japanese shit (and I mean the kind we don't like) will pour. Besides, I think it is best that anime stay foreign, in that way it will retain its exotic allure.

@Markus wolfe:

Shut my hole and get back on topic? No, because as long as you feel that you can just spout off completely negative comments that bear no inclination to actually being constructive towards the written piece the comments are attached to and are just pure jerk-ranting... then you're gonna get trolled right back whether it be me or someone else. I love Canada, really, I do, but what you've been saying poorly reflects the Canadian spirit in general and makes you look like a total tool. You're talking to an American who watches CBC; stop acting like I'm totally ignorant towards the subtle nuances you declare are so well-defined. You started this conversation, dear sir, not me.

...in other words: you get back on topic and start discussing the general implications of a geek film doing so well with non-geek audiences, American or Canadian or otherwise, or your trolling rear-end is going to be handed to you. If I won't do it, someone will.

@Nehszriah:

See, that's what separates Canada from America. WE ARE NOT YOU. We know there is a difference (much of which can be traced back to which immigrants came when. For example, Canada was hit less hard than America by the Global Depression because of a higher percentage of thrifty Scottish immigrants back in the days of colonization), and we struggle to maintain our individuality as a nation.

Now shut your hole or get back on topic.

@Markus wolfe:

Did you also miss the part about Canada being a nation of immigrants as well, thus being just like America with the exception of how government/politics is run?

Don't start slamming just because you think you're better than us.

@Ryu:

Did you miss the 'melting pot' part of that?

@Markus wolfe:

Um, did you read what I said, or did you just look at the pretty avatar?
"Hardly anything is ever original, and the USA truly is nothing but a rolled up ball of all the different cultures from around the world."
"All forms of literature that have spawned in America have roots (KEYWORD HERE, ROOTS) in someplace overseas."
"Many things from different countries do become mainstream in America, and we do welcome it."
"...like everything else, it blends in with our culture, not 'invades' it"
Now, if you would like to continue this ridiculous debate, I suggest you try messaging the person you want to argue with, as opposed to spamming the article's comment box. This is a place for offering CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM, not for totally bashing the opinion of the author.
Sorry RT, I'm kinda spamming as well now...
-Ryu

@Ryu:

You are trying to deny that Western Culture is Western. Stop.

America is a melting pot: It will accept foreign materials if it appears to be good, but it will all liquefy and become American in the end. Do you really think that the massive differences in dubs are because of meanings lost in translation?

@Markus wolfe:

I really hope you open up your eyes and see the world as it is. Hardly anything is ever original, and the USA truly is nothing but a rolled up ball of all the different cultures from around the world. And saying that Canada is not it's own country, that it is overly-influeneced by the United States, is totally bogus. Not only are Canadians completely different people from us (and don't call me an ignorant American, I've been there and done that) but there's also this place in Canada called Quebec, that is influenced way more by a much more foreign country than the United States. All forms of literature that have spawned in America have roots in someplace overseas. If you ask any American historian, they can tell you the origins of any example you throw at them. Perhaps the only thing that they would say is truly American would be jazz, and that of course was created from the rythmns of gospel hymns. Many things from different countries do become mainstream in America, and we do welcome it. Ever hear of hockey? Horse Racing? Theatre? Or pizza? Chicago now has some of the world's best deep dish pizza, and nobody on the 'media level' is going to stop it. Japanese animation, as well as many other things, has started it's seed WAY before forums ever existed; I can't believe you would actually put that down. This stuff didn't just pop out in the last fifteen years; Transformers, Speed Racer, and many others started hitting the American airwaves in the sixties and seventies. Airwaves. Hey, does that sound like media? Yea, kinda...is it overwhelming? No, not really...gee, could it be that like everything else, it blends in with our culture, not 'invades' it? In fact, the only 'invasion' the media tried to stop was the British Invasion, and that became pretty mainstream.
The fact that you are trying to say that anime won't (as if it already hasn't) become mainstream is totally bogus. Manga and anime both have their own sections in bookstores. Anime is showed on regular broadcasting channels, as opposed to being only available online or mail-order hardcopies. We have HUGE conventions, where not only American people gather to appreciate this culture together, but where the headlining names and companies in anime/manga/video games shower us in upcoming developments in the business. We have bigtime actors like Richard Gallagher, Christopher Lee, Haley Joel Osment, and Brittany Murphy in the game Kingdom Hearts, created by the Japan based game developing/manga publishing Squareenix. Robin Williams himself said that if there ever was a live Pokemon movie, he would be the first in the audtion line to be Professor Oak. Anime is VERY credible, VERY mainstream, and apparently, WAY over your head.
Sorry, I normally don't rant like this...
-Ryu

@red tigress:

Star Wars was also inspired by cowboy movies. I fail to see your point.

See that one word you said: 'borrowed'. I believe the proper term is 'hijacked'. See, while some American cartoons may look more like anime than they did 20 years ago,that doesn't mean anime's going mainstream. It just means the anime art style has influenced these modern cartoonists.

Additionally, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was a very successful parody of Daredevil, New Mutants (Both Marvel)Dave Sim's Cerebus and Frank Miller's Ronin. I don't see any strength in your argument, as these are all American comics.

And the rest of the influences on America are merely side effects of globalization (when you can talk to someone in Japan or Russia on a forum, shit gets around the planet pretty fast)

Really good essay. It does prove a point that Hollywood is just a big sponge that will soak up anything that they think would make a good movie. Which is probably why Australian movies aren't as good there.

But your point is definitely made loud and clear!

@Markus wolfe:

Since you're Canadian, I don't think you understand that America is made up of almost entirely borrowed cultures and traditions. Fashion in North America comes from trends that have been around for years in Asia and Europe. Nearly all our food is borrowed or variations of already established trends in cuisine. And finally, art inspires art. Manga originally borrowed from American comics, and now companies are borrowing more Japanese style animation and comic styles. If you think about it, some of our most "American" institutions are borrowed from other cultures. Ninjas didn't originate in Brooklyn, but we still got the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Star Wars, one of the first sci-fi films many non-fans of Science Fiction saw, took a lot of its inspiration from samurai legends. Two years ago, the film that won the Best Picture Oscar was The Departed, a film adapted from the original Chinese film, Infernal Affairs.

So you see, foreign culture is already in our mainstream media. You just have to know what to look for.

Alright, news flash people: Anime isn't viewed as credible in western society, and it's never going to be as credible as things that originated in western culture. Get over it.

You don't understand this because you're American kids. Your media is so saturated with American content that you enjoy a few imports from Japan. I, however, come from Canada. We TRY to have our own culture, and it usually works well except on a media level. If it wasn't for a certain government-owned station by the name of CBC, I'm pretty sure that Canadian media would be (almost) as saturated with American content as yours.

Now, imagine if Japanese culture started to overwhelm your American media just as your American culture constantly invades Canada. Did you think about that, hm? I think not.

Bottom line is, foreign culture is never going to be mainstream, and neither should it be. I prefer it as an underground thing anyways.

Well done, you hit on some good points. Having the steps to get involved in helping out the industry was a good idea. Especially number three...screaming fangirls makes me want to make a portable catapult.
-Ryu

Oops. Should've caught that coding thingy. My bad - this was, after all, about the 30th in a line of about 40 or so I went through today.

In any case, though, excellent essay. Reminds me that I should write more things like these more often.

@red tigress:

That's what I suspected. Not a problem.

@Allamorph:

Oh thanks. Something didn't work in the coding apparently.

Good good. Only one thing I'd like to mention.

a man most well known for producing the shows Alias and .

And what? (Whoops. =P)