That's a fair point, and I can understand that. However, the sticking point to me is one of the ability of the audience to grasp the concept. If I see "river" and "styx" that close together, I immediately think of the land of the dead, and reading the page doesn't break when I come across a concept I'm not familiar with.
Granted, if I had seen the mythology reference and stumbled at it, I probably could have taken the context to figure it out, and then the translator note would have supported my attempt. But that still pulls me out of the story in general, and constant notes about "in Japanese culture ____ means this" starts to feel more clinical and less pleasurable.
A similar concept, if I may make a massive detour into the realm of music, is the tradition surrounding opera. When opera was first popular, way back in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, it was written in Italian. That was The Way you wrote opera. If you were a French composer you wrote opera in Italian. If you were German, you wrote opera in Italian; and you listened to opera in Italian.
Then there was a fledgling composer by the name of Carl Maria von Weber who was trying to get his own opera gig started, and he was beset with difficulties on all sides; in short, no one wanted to give him venues for performance. So basically as a wild shot, he wrote and composed an opera in German (his native tongue) and found a way to perform it....
...and it was a smash hit. Weber was literally performing this opera multiple times a week for a couple of months, and in the same general area as well. And sure, part of that was because it was in German, and the German people could understand that.
But its popularity (and Weber's continued popularity) was because Weber wrote his operas with German culture and German customs and things the German people readily understood and didn't have to be told. And they devoured it like fresh funnel cakes at a carnival.
So my point is that, yes, the integrity of the material might be a little off. And yes, I might not learn as much with the reference replaced.
But I understood what the character was saying without having to be told. It didn't break immersion for me. And that, and the fluidity of the story, are what are important to me.
Japan Bureau (Podcasters) | Posted 10/18/09 | Reply
Of course, it's not professional to mangle the English language. It's not the "River of Styx", it's the "River Styx". I personally, would prefer they leave the original name, and if they needed to explain that it is the river that separates the living world from that of the dead then do that in a note. I like to learn a bit from what I'm reading or watching.
Always desirable. Gratuitous Japanese is just really frickin' jarring when I'm trying to catch up on One Piece for the week. I mean, seriously. The point of translating is to make it understandable. Why bother if you're just gonna romanize half the words and leave it a garbled mess that hardly bears a resemblance to English sentence structure? Just leave it as is. At least then I only have to know one language.
In short, next time I see the word nakama, I'm gonna punch a subtitler.
Last edited by Ace at 5:40:03 AM EDT on October 18, 2009.
Allamorph
Spiritus Memorae (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 10/19/09 | Reply
@TimeChaser:
The character who drew those sketches actually drew him that way because he felt so much contempt for him.
And also because he had just lost a major fight, and lost rather badly.
Last edited by Allamorph at 10:19:10 PM EDT on October 19, 2009.
TimeChaser
Madman With a Box (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 10/19/09 | Reply
The guy in the picture on the left looks like a messed-up Kenpachi.
Bazinga!
Allamorph
Spiritus Memorae (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 10/18/09 | Reply
@AP Ichigo:
That's a fair point, and I can understand that. However, the sticking point to me is one of the ability of the audience to grasp the concept. If I see "river" and "styx" that close together, I immediately think of the land of the dead, and reading the page doesn't break when I come across a concept I'm not familiar with.
Granted, if I had seen the mythology reference and stumbled at it, I probably could have taken the context to figure it out, and then the translator note would have supported my attempt. But that still pulls me out of the story in general, and constant notes about "in Japanese culture ____ means this" starts to feel more clinical and less pleasurable.
A similar concept, if I may make a massive detour into the realm of music, is the tradition surrounding opera. When opera was first popular, way back in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, it was written in Italian. That was The Way you wrote opera. If you were a French composer you wrote opera in Italian. If you were German, you wrote opera in Italian; and you listened to opera in Italian.
Then there was a fledgling composer by the name of Carl Maria von Weber who was trying to get his own opera gig started, and he was beset with difficulties on all sides; in short, no one wanted to give him venues for performance. So basically as a wild shot, he wrote and composed an opera in German (his native tongue) and found a way to perform it....
...and it was a smash hit. Weber was literally performing this opera multiple times a week for a couple of months, and in the same general area as well. And sure, part of that was because it was in German, and the German people could understand that.
But its popularity (and Weber's continued popularity) was because Weber wrote his operas with German culture and German customs and things the German people readily understood and didn't have to be told. And they devoured it like fresh funnel cakes at a carnival.
So my point is that, yes, the integrity of the material might be a little off. And yes, I might not learn as much with the reference replaced.
But I understood what the character was saying without having to be told. It didn't break immersion for me. And that, and the fluidity of the story, are what are important to me.
AP Ichigo
Japan Bureau (Podcasters) | Posted 10/18/09 | Reply
Of course, it's not professional to mangle the English language. It's not the "River of Styx", it's the "River Styx". I personally, would prefer they leave the original name, and if they needed to explain that it is the river that separates the living world from that of the dead then do that in a note. I like to learn a bit from what I'm reading or watching.
Thanks,
Ichigo
Ace
Senile Hipster (Otaku Eternal) | Posted 10/18/09 | Reply
Always desirable. Gratuitous Japanese is just really frickin' jarring when I'm trying to catch up on One Piece for the week. I mean, seriously. The point of translating is to make it understandable. Why bother if you're just gonna romanize half the words and leave it a garbled mess that hardly bears a resemblance to English sentence structure? Just leave it as is. At least then I only have to know one language.
In short, next time I see the word nakama, I'm gonna punch a subtitler.
Last edited by Ace at 5:40:03 AM EDT on October 18, 2009.